Originally Posted by
lynchfourtwenty 
should test the n1 cams just to see..
Kelfords have been proven to make more than N1's for quite sometime now. Even on stock compression 2L's.
Originally Posted by
Teal97 any other way but measuring to identify the version?
Cam spec card tells you all the info you need.
There is no common denominator between the two. The kelford 184c's are not the problem in any case, does not matter what version it is.
His problem is internal as the header/IM works and the tune is spot on. Your problem in mainly in tuning and cam timing/selection.
Originally Posted by
1sentra-se-r On my high comp 2.0 the 184c did loose bout 10hp over n1's but i'm sure it due to something else and had to retune to gain all the power back.
Surely a tuning issue. They should make tons more mid range than the N1's and depending on the IM used, more up top.
Originally Posted by
ashtonsser If only JWT had stepped in to do a set of VE cams. As much as a lot of you paid for the Kelfords im sure JWT could have made a cam that made just as much or more than the current kelford cams and probably could have had the price a little less as well. If it was something JWT was worried about not selling well, I dont know why that would be since there is probably already a good 12-15 people or more who have purchased kelfords starting with version 1 to version 3's just off this forum alone not to mention probably several other sets from those not on here. I think jwt could have made their money on producing a set of VE cams.
I forgot why Andreas said they didnt want to do it but I thought it was something along the lines of they didnt think they would sell enough of them or the cost of the blanks was too high or something. Either way. JWT probably could have come up with a hell of an NA cam profile. We dont need a turbo profile as we already have the VET, 20V, and 16ve cams for that all dependant on application that work very very well for turbo. NA is the one still lacking I think. I dont think its impossible to get more power out of the VE motor with a proper NA cam. You look at the K-series and how many cam profiles are out there that have big gains over even the type R cam they like to use. Even from one company they have like 6 profiles that outperform the already well performing type r cam.
Still a lot of R&D work to be done for VE cams I think, still one of the biggest lacking areas, not intake manifolds and headers. There is only soo much to an intake manifold design. And there is only soo much we can do with our limited engine bay room and I think there are a couple manifolds out there that people have had custom made that flow and perform perfectly fine. Its going to come down to a better cam profile and people actually doing some heavy port and polish work to the head.
The K-series cars are making more power for other reasons outside of cam selection. Being able to dial 40-50 degrees of cam timing on the fly is huge. Should also study the head designs between the two.
The 184c is pretty close, there is just little tweaking to do. If you do some research you will realize there is not much more we can do to this cam without going with a custom valvetrain. A cam is not going to give us a magical 30+hp. Its the supporting parts around it.
Originally Posted by
nickI hadnt actually intended to post the info about kelfords but maybe I should clarify something,this isnt a redesign, this is a revision much the same as v1-3. Kelford continue to develop there profiles based on feedback from customers which is pretty much the reason they have earnt the reputation they now have
They are doing a very good job with what they have to work with. I am more than happy with what they have produced so far with the handful of customers that have been giving them back feedback for improvement.
Originally Posted by
ashtonsser Again I still think there is room for improvement in a cam profile. Especially for big built motors. You look at some dynos out there of the k series and their race profile cams for built 2.4 or bigger high comp motors are making about 30whp over the factory type r cam on the same motor.
This goes into comparison with n1's vs Kelfords. If you look at the n1' and type r k series cam they are pretty close in specs. So 30whp gain from a properly done cam is great thing.
Right now its looking like in most test the v3's were getting about 10whp up on the n1's. biggest example was cory's dyno with his 2.3L. 10whp but also held out power longer as well.
I really think there is still a lot of room left on the table for a good cam to come out for the ve. Again there are not near as many intake manifold designs for the k-series as there are cams. An intake manifold is basicly a thing of flow capability and flow characteristics. More so flow ability if it can keep up with the head. Im sure most of the intake manifolds people have tested outflow their stock or mildly ported heads. You will only gain so much based of flow characteristics. Plain and simple if the head flows one amount and your intake manifold flows more there is nothing really more to gain out of the intake manifold. Again im just taking a look at Hondas example as they are the leaders in the all motor game by far. No questions asked. I know the ve is a different motor but the fact is to make power you need air, fuel, and exhaust flow. The more air you can get into the motor and better the flow, the more fuel, the more power same goes on the exhaust side. So in general a k series 2.0L that can easily make 230whp with a head that flows almost identical to a VE head tells me one thing. Cam design. Again ive seen the dyno graphs of just doing cam comparisons where the type r cam made about 205-210 on a 2.0L and with the race cam made 230+. Simple as that.
Definitely not the case.
Intake manifold/header design is the biggest contributor to the big jumps in HP. Our head design limits us in many aspects. One being lift. How much more lift do you think we can achieve before we need custom valve seals etc because of interference? The VE & K20 heads are nothing alike, put them side by side and you will see why. They have a better flowing head, lighter valvetrain and a better cam-timing system.
As far as the intake manifold, to say "flow" is the only or main contributing factor in producing NA power is flat out wrong. What about velocity? So If I produce a 2L manifold at 5" runner length with 65mm bellmouth that flows 95% of what my head does will make the same power as a 9" length 52mm bellmouth manifold that "flows" the same?
No # can put a number on any V3 testing as no one has done it, yet. Cory's dyno from N1 to 184c was on a different profile. In any case, Cory had alot more power to achieve on his 2.3L outside of a cam change. 285-290hp could have been reached with a few changes internally and with a better intake manifold/header combo.
Originally Posted by
1sentra-se-r How much effect does a dented header runners loses flow and cause power loss?
Alot.
Originally Posted by
nismo94tuner ^That signature goes hard. LOL.
Big blue has something for that
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