Thread: Guess my ve hp

If only JWT had stepped in to do a set of VE cams. As much as a lot of you paid for the Kelfords im sure JWT could have made a cam that made just as much or more than the current kelford cams and probably could have had the price a little less as well. If it was something JWT was worried about not selling well, I dont know why that would be since there is probably already a good 12-15 people or more who have purchased kelfords starting with version 1 to version 3's just off this forum alone not to mention probably several other sets from those not on here. I think jwt could have made their money on producing a set of VE cams.

I forgot why Andreas said they didnt want to do it but I thought it was something along the lines of they didnt think they would sell enough of them or the cost of the blanks was too high or something. Either way. JWT probably could have come up with a hell of an NA cam profile. We dont need a turbo profile as we already have the VET, 20V, and 16ve cams for that all dependant on application that work very very well for turbo. NA is the one still lacking I think. I dont think its impossible to get more power out of the VE motor with a proper NA cam. You look at the K-series and how many cam profiles are out there that have big gains over even the type R cam they like to use. Even from one company they have like 6 profiles that outperform the already well performing type r cam.

Still a lot of R&D work to be done for VE cams I think, still one of the biggest lacking areas, not intake manifolds and headers. There is only soo much to an intake manifold design. And there is only soo much we can do with our limited engine bay room and I think there are a couple manifolds out there that people have had custom made that flow and perform perfectly fine. Its going to come down to a better cam profile and people actually doing some heavy port and polish work to the head.

I hadnt actually intended to post the info about kelfords but maybe I should clarify something,this isnt a redesign, this is a revision much the same as v1-3. Kelford continue to develop there profiles based on feedback from customers which is pretty much the reason they have earnt the reputation they now have

Ashton, I believe the v2s and the v3s do the job well.

I still believe its in the combo of parts ie header and intake mani. Once my motor is back in and together I plan on testing 2 diff proven desings for each header amd intake

Nickm, so what ur saying is kelford is going to possibly be building a new cam ?

Stratton.

Again I still think there is room for improvement in a cam profile. Especially for big built motors. You look at some dynos out there of the k series and their race profile cams for built 2.4 or bigger high comp motors are making about 30whp over the factory type r cam on the same motor.

This goes into comparison with n1's vs Kelfords. If you look at the n1' and type r k series cam they are pretty close in specs. So 30whp gain from a properly done cam is great thing.

Right now its looking like in most test the v3's were getting about 10whp up on the n1's. biggest example was cory's dyno with his 2.3L. 10whp but also held out power longer as well.

I really think there is still a lot of room left on the table for a good cam to come out for the ve. Again there are not near as many intake manifold designs for the k-series as there are cams. An intake manifold is basicly a thing of flow capability and flow characteristics. More so flow ability if it can keep up with the head. Im sure most of the intake manifolds people have tested outflow their stock or mildly ported heads. You will only gain so much based of flow characteristics. Plain and simple if the head flows one amount and your intake manifold flows more there is nothing really more to gain out of the intake manifold. Again im just taking a look at Hondas example as they are the leaders in the all motor game by far. No questions asked. I know the ve is a different motor but the fact is to make power you need air, fuel, and exhaust flow. The more air you can get into the motor and better the flow, the more fuel, the more power same goes on the exhaust side. So in general a k series 2.0L that can easily make 230whp with a head that flows almost identical to a VE head tells me one thing. Cam design. Again ive seen the dyno graphs of just doing cam comparisons where the type r cam made about 205-210 on a 2.0L and with the race cam made 230+. Simple as that.

How much effect does a dented header runners loses flow and cause power loss?

a lot! please tell me you put those numbers up with that problem that will explain a lot right there.

I know from the guys in nyc they would have huge dents in their asp headers and would get it fixed and the car would be a whole new animal the motor would even sound different.

depends on really how big the dent is. I know peters 2.0ve 200 has a pretty decent dent in the header on one of the secondaries probably smashed it to half the diameter. So I know its affecting it some but it still put down 191whp with only a half hour spent tuning it. Added some other stuff later and did more tuning on it after and it still felt stronger. His ssac header was definitely holding him back though dent or not.

thats like putting a sock in your mouth and trying to breath, of course you can breath but you have something that is making it harder for you to do so

Yes those numbers are with the dent header probably 1/4 or 1/3 of the diameter. So are you guys saying thats hold back 15-20hp? Cory and I talk about this and we both agree it wouldnt hurt much if any at all cause cory dyno once when his dented header and didnt notice any loss of power.

Funny how JWT can make the best all around cam for the DE, the S4. Even with their C2-C3 cams they may not have been as popular but with JWT's R&D behind them they kicked serious ass. We will never know how their street or race VE cams could have performed if they would have been as committed in developing them as the S4 or C3 cams. The 184c2-3 cams by Kelford still seem to provide good gains and are still being improved upon. Header and intake design are critical to optimal cam performance IMO but proper tuning of related components can't be stressed enough. Cory's tuner knows his stuff so we can rule that out. If compression checks out scratch that. The 184s have to be properly shimmed since they are not a direct drop in, well known. Process of elimination has me thinking either header (not sure a moderate dent on one runner of the primary can cost 20 hp) or intake flow isn't optimal for the cams to breathe for max power. The combination of both all things considered? We'll see. Hope you get it figured out soon cuz this is a hell of a mystery for all of us in this thread.