Thread: VE with stock cams= good daily

ShawnB and Viprdude, before i did my VE swap i was very convinced that i could make my DE outperform a stock VE with simple bolt ons and a good tune. Boy was i wrong, intake,SSAC header, 2.5 exhaust, s4 cams, pulleys, and i got walked on by a stock VE with exhaust. Friends who have done this swap in the past tried to tell me not to wastes money building a DE cause it just wont compare but i was super stubborn.
Not to say that its all about the speed or the power, but the VE is a far superior engine all around. Oil squirters, better oil pump, VVL, more reliable. The drivabilty alone was worth it, much more torque all the way around and the throttle reponse is much better than you could ever imagine with a DE. Also i ran a similar exhaust set up that you guys have on your cars now (stock cat,2'x2.5thrush resonator, 2.5 piping, Apexi ws2 muffler) after the swap the exhaust was half as loud. All i could hear was the intake (no BS). Assuming its because of the better head design and the VVL.
In the end i guess its all about what you want out of your car, it was my DD for sometime until recently (winter) and its been flawless. Kick myself for not listening to people who have been there done that, lesson learned. good luck with whatever you choose

The whole point of a ve id to have the great top end WITH great drivabity and idle and all that. That's why I guess this is confusing. My 270whp ve could be my daily just fine if I hadn't stripped it

Exactly my thoughts, I plan on keeping my a/c.

Dude please save me the time of not posting if you are gonna post useless things. I mean come on how does it make sense to build a DE??? You will have a ton of money in a motor that is only capable of making 200whp plus you would be spending alot of money for an old motor.

I mean you can get a VE all day for 1k shipped. And lets use Shawn B for an example here. He could buy a VE motor use all the parts he currently has and put it in the car and make 180whp and it is a perfect daily driver with better gas mileage. That is all I am saying.



Cory. Why swap a VE if you are not going to try to get the potential of the motor? Maybe because a guy wants a 13 second daily driver with A/C.
Or maybe a guy wants a nice b13 that isnt stripped down and he also enjoys going to the road course (which is real driving) and having a car that makes more hp so he car keep up with a RSX or S2000.
Or maybe just maybe the guy has had over 30 Sr20 Powered cars, had them in every form and had a 10 second turbo street driven sentra.

So that is why I posted this. If you are a guy the drives to work all the time a basic VE swap will make you happy.
That is all I am saying. In the real world nobody wants a loud ass car that is stripped to shit to drive everyday. That is all I am saying.

"Just". I would assert most street cars see various duties. Not "just" a commute to work.

My Classic is usually my daily driver, unless the weather sucks or I need to haul stuff (Chevy Tahoe time...). That does not mean I do not punch it on entrance ramps, enjoy clover leafs, take the long twisty way home, or have plans to hit road courses on occassion.

*Guessing* I have....135'ish whp, a jump to 180'ish on a mostly stock (I/H/E, professional tuning) VE sounds like a helluva jump in fun.


....which is an ultra-easy, OEM-reliable, 45 whp () jump in power.


I can relate to this entire post, and thread for that matter.

I really couldn't have said this any better. Rodney gets it.


I can assure you that you be quite happy with a stock VE done properly. Think back to your ride with Chris driving at Roebling Road and remember the smile you had on your face.
"......a special car gets you there with a smile on your face."

1st hand experience overrides any suppositions from numbers. However, I am also inclined to question why is there any difference in low end between the N1 and SR20VE stock cams, given the similar specs or even favored numbers towards N1. I have only driven on SR16 cams so dont have that experience.



But the difference is mostly on the intakes and headers of both, how they respond differently to low end and high end power, cause Im thinking you tuned for max performance in both cases, didnt you? So unless Im blind-folded by thinking that tuning is strictly related to ECU tinkering... I dont get it.
Say if you wanted to tune the low end on the SE-R, what will be stopping you? Tuning AFR/Timing/etc OR intake / header that are not suited for low end? And viceversa with tuning the NX for high end?




Your thread is about daily driving, not max whp . It gets a lot more complicated to tune for low end rpm and daily drive (not WOT) on a dyno, unless it´s a loaded dyno and you have lots of time.



While I think from own experience that SR16 cams are great in the low end for daily driving and not wimps like the lift/duration suggest, how do you know scavenging > lift/duration?

On the other hand, if scavenging is not as important in daily non WOT driving, then I see why they say, from SOTP experience, that the 20VE cams have better low end than the N1 despite their better exhaust low lobe lift/duration. Think about it, they have some credit on their side because they have experienced it and tell you 20VE > N1 in low lobes and daily. And they also say SR16 are the wimpest of them all in the low lobes, despite your numbers and reasoning.



Well, I went from DE with S5 cams to GTi-R DET to VE. I am searching for more power and would sacrifice the low end anytime, BUT I cannot be happier with the fact that the VE has the nicest idle, can get you around town without noise below 3000rpm @ 3" exh, still give you a smile below the switch point with spirited driving AND become a beast when on the high lobes.

Its the best of all worlds! So IMO, with their falling prices yes the VE is the best daily driver! You´d miss out if you dont want to rev it out more than 5000rpm, but it would be a nice grocery getter and hey then you save the switch.

1. Get a VE, if only to test it from a friend.
2. Use all the same bolt ons from your DE.
3. Drive, below VVL if you wish.
4. Rinse, repeat, as many times as required.
5. Which one is more torquey?


If after doing that, you say its the DE, then we´ll believe you. But some might say you are only being subjective.

^^^ Good points. Also the stock VE & N1 low lobes are different enough that the N1s need to be tuned to bring the low end up to par. There are threads on this in the tuning section of the forums also. I question why the difference a lot but one thing I do know is that a great many here don't use cam gears on the stockers and a few that do will adjust them on the N1s to improve hp & tq throughout the powerband especially in the midrange where a lot of daily driving occurs. This combined with remapping the fuel and timing seems typical of a lot of N1 users, even me. Most know or should know that the only set of cams that were designed on a 2L VE from Nissan were the 20Vs and the stock VE cams. The 16VE & N1s were designed for the 1.6L VE. Supposedly the 20Vs have the best low lobe cams for the 2L VE at least in specs they do. Maybe those that do have them can chime in. Just speculating but even though the Stock VE & N1 low lobes may be somewhat similar they were designed from Nissan to work more efficiently on different displacement motors. We as performance enthusiasts are always looking for ways to safely increase power levels without sacrificing drivability whether DE, VE or turbo. The 16VE & N1 cams are a drop in option for the stock or massaged 2L VE that have been a proven bolt on but knowing that they were designed for a 1.6 should be taken in consideration when comparing them to the stockers. Just a thought. Probably another sound reason to tune your setup for optimum performance and drivability.

I have driven on both std and n1 cams, and there is little difference between the 2 on the low lobes. the n1's dyno'd slightly better but the SOTP didnt really give much of a difference.

The VE always felt stronger down low than my DE (even with poncams), most likely due to the extra compression.
The VE's greatest strength is great top end, with solid bottom end and no sacrifice of idle or fuel economy.

So in conclusion
a) If you're a tight ass, and dont want to use the high lobes much, stick with the std cams
b) if you want ~20hp more up top, spend the bit of money and get n1's, without losing anything down low.