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Thread: Budget Build

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Posts: 291-300 of 386
2009-02-27 16:11:47
#291
Originally Posted by nissanwulf
If you ask me, it seems like you were trying to prove the difference between flywheel & wheel hp on Page 7.

Also, I noticed you cut your sheet off, as soon at it peaks & drops. Isn't that on the same dyno that jun tuned the 200sx on? If that's the case, that mean's their is a good possibility that their could be a glitch on your sheet aswell? From the look of the dyno that's cut off! I guess that's why you cut it off! That means your right around 199hp! Since everyone else is averaging what they think other people make That's just IMO. But what do I know, back in the bushes for me...



So why dont you go fetch the sheets and post them? Obviously there was a glitch, given the reason why I never posted the 222 hp sheet. Honestly the sheet looks identical to the one of Kesi's VE posted in one of these pages. To make you feel better ill go to cowboy and have him post the entire sheet, as my phone cant take a big enough pics to read it.

This motor has cams and a header, thats it! I put this together for the fun of it, just to do it. I have 3 other turbo cars to worry about #'s in. You say my car makes 199? Fine, when anyone asks ill say it makes about 190. Kesi & JR keep doing what you do. Best of luck.

You kids who respond in behalf of JR are weak. Continue to use his smiley icons from photobucket, glad you found a role model.
2009-02-27 16:31:27
#292
Originally Posted by SR20GTi-R
So why dont you go fetch the sheets and post them? Obviously there was a glitch, given the reason why I never posted the 222 hp sheet. Honestly the sheet looks identical to the one of Kesi's VE posted in one of these pages. To make you feel better ill go to cowboy and have him post the entire sheet, as my phone cant take a big enough pics to read it.

This motor has cams and a header, thats it! I put this together for the fun of it, just to do it. I have 3 other turbo cars to worry about #'s in.

You kids who respond in behalf of JR are weak. Continue to use his smiley icons from photobucket, glad you found a role model.


Posting your entire sheet would be good so we could see if the glitch or whatever happened @ or about the same time or the same way. We could also take the car over to Matt's and run on his packs and see what result we get.
2009-02-27 16:56:51
#293
test the cams open header!
2009-02-27 17:04:06
#294
Originally Posted by kesi24
IST thing I will never write this much again
2nd This post got more hits than a hooker in hunts point lol

I don’t care about HP.I care about ¼ mile times and traps.
I’m no tuner I don’t know much on how to tune, I know more hands on, I know how to build something fast that’s it. I notice a lot of member act like they know how to make serious power but they really don’t have a clue.

This build was not to prove who has more Horse power it was a simple build and we got good results. All the man did was post the numbers he got on the dyno, we didn’t mess with the numbers in ayway.Some member said he didn’t build the motor, I don’t know of any member who bore their own block. The motor was sent to a machine shop in CT where it was bored 1MM over. Like every builder it was sent to a MACHINE SHOP.JR got back block and him and myself put it together in 2 days. We worked hard all night to get it running and for the customer to get his car turned around quickly. Now many might like him or not that’s not my concern but the lies I just can’t take. I was there and I busted my ass all night to get that thing running with jr.We put it in it fired up we hit the dyno with less than 200 miles on the motor and made what it did.

Now the dyno ,I truly know that dyna packs read higher than JETS like I said,Andreas have a good point and it could be a glitch ,agree with him or not he he’s not flaming just posting thing he findings. I can’t get mad at that man for that, in my opinion he has a good point as Steza.Now Jamie I see you and few others trying to prove power makes less and power flywheel. Super cowboy proved you wrong because both are same in his sheets. The 1st run was 210 hp and torque was in 150 ranges. Tuned it made more power and 168 ft now I’m not a smart guy but I know horsepower gain is gain don’t matter pack jet mustang dynamics dynos that’s cowboys point we gain alot by tuning. You guys coming on here like we setup the dyno to glitch ect all we know is we ran it and we look and tune accordingly .I have known super cowboy six or so years we put together some sick setups for ve’s before alot of you guys been in the picture .Indirectly or directly if you like us or not you are benefiting from our findings. Now I said this before and I say it again 99% of you guys are stock in 80’s that the cam gear setting +5-5 business and bin file sharing makes me laugh .STOP AND TUNE YOU OWN CAR IT WONT WORK THE SAME even if its exact build.
All you guys are waiting for cam’s, begging and begging and then they make kelfords which is an good cam and fs4 and guess what? No one wants to try them .Why they waiting for dre or snicker ,supercowboy or anyone to test first.I just sit back and just watch .Then when you tell someone made for a built motor they put it in anyways on a stock VE and it loses 20-30whp now it’s not a good cam.
I test differently than others this is my opinion on R&D.Some builds fail some work, I for one can say I blew like 6 VE’s. JR probably blew up more. A person who does R&D who never blew up anything and R&D nothing but himself. I am not referring to head flowing or intake flow numbers ECT, real world testing. Now people never post they blow up a motor but from what I learned I can tell you what gasket is junk which one is good which one can hold what power and not by he say she say but by testing .We tested stock VE how much nitrous it can take stock how much HP on boost till it fail pistons rod’s .Tested 15:1 16:1 compression to 8:5:1 VE pistons. Tried it all we put in a lot of work that people are not aware of.Supercowboy gained so much vast knowledge from my old 200sx .Lots of things we do he think is crazy and works some don’t.

Now to car the car was running 12.8 since 2005 when I had it trapping 103-105 range. A few will remember that few might call bull**** fine. I’m not here to amuse or prove anything but to post few finding what we gained.Jr got the car ran it ran 13’s first day got it then headed down to 12’s .We played with it more mad less power with some headers more with some we tried it all and we did some things ran 110 mph all motor .Posted slip because no one believed up and few member was there at the track in 07 or so can’t remember .Then all of a sudden he was spraying so as you can see you can never win. The Funny thing is that motor is still running in a se-r in Yonkers .The guy is not a member but it’s still a beast and I will say it will crack anyone ass on this forum in 1/4 mile built or stock. A member posted before saying” said he seen nitrous “on the green car”, **** you think dre is the nos hoe? WE THE PIMP (jk dre lol).DID he ever sprayed the car HELL YEA but it didn’t runs 13 or 12 lol. All the Nitrous runs are for testing to see how it hold till it blows so if a customer wants a shot he can now what’s the max to put on till it blow its simple. Single fogger and direct port was tested and we still testing now on cp pistons to see how that will hold up.Now if I say that a VE with a 200 shot ran 10.XX everyone will say bull or it can’t be done so we just stay quiet and keep to our selves.
I saw a post someone said he bought Charles motor, yes this is correct. Who would buy a 6k motor for 4-3K? I would ****; I don’t know what the big deal is? What because he said he built it? How do you know what motor is in his car? Not jacking him he a pal but we changed that setup so much times .EVERY YEAR HE CHANGES THE SETUP FOR YOUR INFO! It’s a show car and if it has same setup ever year it cannot compete the next year while everyone has new parts.. Matter fact he changing the whole setup again for the 3rd time. DO yourself a favor and write down the block serial numbers see if the same motor and then you can act up!
Like it or not same people basing Jr he is the only one putting se-r on map on magazines’s, the streets and track while everyone else is just TALK. The NY same guys on the sideline coming to see him run 500+ hp se-r and civics’ ect with AN ALL motor se-r.So you can say what you want you have to give respect where it is due .He accomplished a lot for his age he may not be pleasant ,it’s just the New York competition attitude. Like I said NO OTHER SER guy will run a 500+ ser with all motor car for 10K.
We can post up a video of the car down the ¼ mile but that will start a fight again because some clown will say its spraying or no it can’t be done.Thats why all the knowledgeable guys don’t post we just sit back and watch you guys fight it out.
Before I go ill like to thank super cowboy for letting us use the dyno for hours and hours, Dre got to shout you out for bring our community with so much parts. Like it or not we wouldn’t have half the parts developed without you, I never thanked you for that. FL boy’s my good buddy Chris (donttazmebro) for all the testing you have been doing with the cams keep it up bro, also snickers (Charles) for pushing us here in NE and to the real VE KINGS down in PR payu, digitec and mackin keep rocking them ¼ mile times that’s all I really care about, time slips baby .Big up all the 10 sec street sentras you know who you are!!!Jr thanks for all the hours you put in with me and vise verses .So sideliners do your job and continue to sideline and watch how it’s done! Remember one thing people didn’t get to where they are overnight, they put in work!


THank YOU!! KESI
I stopped posting on this thread cuz all the f*****g hate thats been goin on. Ya'll gotta stop hating. Thats why when JOHN finishes my car i'm not gonna post shyt. I Don't care if i don't make the most whp this is a hobby.
I'm not new to the VE scene JOHN did my car like hmm 4-5 years ago.And the car has been untouched since. And B4 that i've had 3 other sr20 powered cars. Not only that im true 2 the nissan scene still got 2 max's. I represent nissan sr20's,VQ's u name it...
My point is i get on the forum for info...u know like hmm i wonder if any new parts for my car are out?? like hmm i wonder if some1 built new cams for my motor..etc Then i start reading and the actual ppl doin the hard work for us always get criticized. Man this just gets me heated and makes me not even wanna get back on here. Not bashing anyone but i think if u have something against some1 on the forum keep it 2 urself...Don't spread the hate or mess up some1's thread just becuz u dislike them, calling them liars and shyt which is basically what ppl have been doing. Anyways im done...thanks again kesi,jun and john(and the owner) for this build.
2009-02-27 17:17:38
#295
im not here to argue im here to say this... post what you guys want... you all offer info that benefits eachother an thats why we got this forum. dont let people make your thread drama for your mama. be happy. smile.. do your quarter mile thing.. dont pay mind to useless thoughts from other individuals.. theres a good chance your not gonna read anything i write but maybe this will get threw to someone.. dont acknowledge anyone that on this forum bothers you just ignore .
2009-02-27 17:18:58
#296
Good words kesi....

just passing by to say great numbers...

you guys know how it is, nothing on the forum changes...so we all keep it as always to our self's.

I got my 200sx back on the streets again so we'll see on what kind of trouble I get or better yet which will I give again
2009-02-27 19:17:00
#297
I actually went back and read all the posts (again) because I wanted to get an idea of what really is going on, just because I'm a curious guy. This is what I seemed to have found. A summary if you will. (Skip to the end if you don't want to read it all).

Compliments/questions on motor build/plan.

SERacer suggests hitting the sharp edged of pistons with emery cloth to limit hot spots. Also suggests the cylinder walls could use some roughing up a bit to help ring sealing. Link

URBANRACERONE responds saying he's basically got it under control. it's unclear if he agrees with the advice. Link

More questions, comments and compliments.

URBANRACERONE posts dyno chart and is happy with the results (231 whp). Gives mod list, says there's more work to be done. Link

supercowboy adds to the information saying the car dyno'd repeatedly in the upper 220's. Link

Much congradulations, some questions and comments.

lonewolf asks about larger than normal drop after peak power. Link

URBANRACERONE says it's a problem related to the 8k rpm limitation of the ECU. Link

lonewolf wants clarification and points to another thread covering the exact issue in question. For the record, the anomaly lonewolf is referring to happens between 7.5k and 8k rpm, not after 8k. Link

More congratulations, praise, comments and questions related to the build.

Some general discussion about flywheel or wheel horsepower and confusion because the graph says "flywheel" but it is claimed to be wheel output. The reason for this discrepancy is well explained throughout the thread and re-iterated many times. The output is to be read as wheel horsepower. The label on the graph is easily changeable and wrong in this instance.

Then we come to Out of Sight's post.
When I first read it I wasn't sure if it was a knock at the original poster and his results, or praise. I wasn't the only one confused.
In hindsight it seems like he is coming on from a different context. It seems he's happy to see the results and very happy that someone finally posted a dyno chart to go along with their claims. I think he genuinely praising the build and information. He also tries to explain how the "flywheel" label is fickle and shouldn't be taken at face value. Link

Suddenly the mood changes and every post afterward is either a defense of the original poster or expressing bewilderment at the "amount of hate" going on, etc. etc. etc.

It seems that there must have been some prior context we here at sr20-forum were not a part of. It would seem there's already been a big argument about these results somewhere else and it has spilled into our forum. There is a lot of talk of "hate" but none that I can find until...

bill explains that this particular VE makes more torque than 99% of others. This is a reason to be skeptical he says. Link

Out of Sight posts and explains more of what's going on. He says there's an argument (not in our thread apparently?) about this particular dyno graph. He says there's a need to be realistic about it. Link


Lost more congratulations, praise and wondering what's with all the "hate".

Tons more congratulations, praise and wondering what's with all the drama.

Andreas Miko notices something in the dyno graph and asks for photoshop help. Link

Setzer comes in and explains about an apparently common glitch with dynopack software that causes "blips" in graphs exactly like the one in the dyno graph posted. Link

Andreas Miko explains the "blip" as well. Link

bill posts a dynopack graph with a "blip" too. Link

Andreas Miko posts what he thinks the graph should look like without the "blip". Link

Lots of off topic talk about dynos in general.

supercowboy posts a bunch more dyno charts taken during preliminary tuning runs. All except one exhibit the "blip" anomaly. The one that doesn't show the blip has 218.6 WHP (I know it says "flywheel" on the dyno chart) as the peak output. Link

Apparently I missed the memo and asked about the "flywheel" vs. "wheel" horsepower thing. supercowboy sets me straight and is maybe the 3rd time it's been said in this thread. Link

Seemingly random comment from new member turbo_dreams personally attacking Setzer. Link

Defense of Setzer by many members.

More congratulations for the build and the produced output. Some more general talk about dyno operation.

Tons of defense for the original poster and acknowledgment of a job well done. Lots of people expressing anticipation for 1/4 mile times.

Clint expressing general concern that people might give up on a build because it's not making the "right" numbers. Link





In conclusion:

Total actual "hate" and drama factor in this thread: 1.5

Total confusion factor: 9.8

Total positive reaction to build: 10+
2009-02-27 19:45:54
#298
Originally Posted by SR20GTi-R
So why dont you go fetch the sheets and post them? Obviously there was a glitch, given the reason why I never posted the 222 hp sheet. Honestly the sheet looks identical to the one of Kesi's VE posted in one of these pages. To make you feel better ill go to cowboy and have him post the entire sheet, as my phone cant take a big enough pics to read it.

This motor has cams and a header, thats it! I put this together for the fun of it, just to do it. I have 3 other turbo cars to worry about #'s in. You say my car makes 199? Fine, when anyone asks ill say it makes about 190. Kesi & JR keep doing what you do. Best of luck.

You kids who respond in behalf of JR are weak. Continue to use his smiley icons from photobucket, glad you found a role model.



how can you dissrespect my man wulf, man tek way ur self bow caat mon...


I have a question for you since you like putting cars together for fun. did YOU put that "built not bought" sticker on that car you bought from jackson dimond "just to do it"?

until then or when you pull that sticker off your car im in the bushes as well...
2009-02-27 19:52:58
#299
Originally Posted by det
how can you dissrespect my man wulf, man tek way ur self bow caat mon...


I have a question for you since you like putting cars together for fun. did YOU put that "built not bought" sticker on that car you bought from jackson dimond "just to do it"?

until then or when you pull that sticker off your car im in the bushes as well...


Wow, that car from Jackson Diamond is sitting in the shop under a pile of stuff.. that car is old news for now. i can tell you one thing the other half doz cars over there are built not bought.
2009-02-27 20:05:00
#300
Originally Posted by kesi24
Sorry for the poor grammar, I just reread what I posted and it was written in a hurry next time I should reread it before I post.

Now as for you Numbers, what I have notice is the same bolt on sr20ve with same modifications Varies so vastly. Some motors might make anywhere from 175 whp to 210 whp exact same modifications .Snicker pointed out to you guys he notice that they made three variances of the sr20ve, that being said why I think it varies so much. The Dyno numbers you posted, like other members said I think your dyno reads differently from ours. I don’t want anyone to think they can make power in a build maybe it does only make 200 whp? .Lets say you made 130kw on n1 cam's and 150kw with kelfords that a 20 kw gain don't matter what that's the point im trying to get across.Clint keep up the good work and hopefully we can find someone else to slap together another build to compare power on the same dyno so we can learn something .Have a good one buddy BTW I need some kelfords


Just to point out that there were TWO DIFFERENT dyno's used!

The lesser value was a 'rolling road' dyno, refferred to as "torque Performance'; which has been our (the New Zealand) benchmark), in which case he got 138.9WkWs.
The greater dyno figure was on a hub dyno, refferred to as 'ST Hitec Dynapack'.

There were mods done to the exhaust (headers in this instance) between the two dynos as well, and the SOTP certainly made marked difference in power, and delivery.

Clint's car goes REALLY nicely, and he seems happy with it, and so am I!
Finally my original engine gets what I always wanted it to!
It's taken a LOT of work, to get it to where it should be from my original POS disaster, and I beleive that there is more potential to be had.
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