Thread: Thoughts on a full race motor setup

If that was the attitude we had we would never improve our set ups... I guess if I knew the exact ideal port volume and ideal valve face area and port sizes for my exact set up maybe id consider the SET IT AND FORGET IT mentality but insteat I've been trying to improve upon my motor. As have Jamie and Rocco. Another reason for taking the head off is before going to a totally different top end set up I wanted to see what actual gains I got from only changing my short block...

Yeah i get the changes for improvement again nobody knows the perfect setup. There are some that are working well and others that arnt so its hard to say. Im just sayin at least the basics if your gonna do a valve job and some heavy port work and so on, why not do that before you put the head on the first time. You know some port work and valve angle job will help out so why not do it. The other stuff, yeah nothing you can do there and if you have the money to do it then cool.

Again, all of your guys testing is paving the way and all great information. Im sure there will be others that follow. Dont let all the build failures scare you. Again all these failures are not freak failures. They all have to do with improper sleeve installation and/or improper assembly. No questions asked. There is no other reason why several others motors would stay together while others blow up.

There are so many other factors that have been found. Just going in and porting it is not enough.

I have over $7,000 invested invested in 2 heads so far. The 3rd will be done soon.

Cory is way up there too. His 3rd head/Head design design will give have a direct answer from his first. Once it goes on then we can compare data. We could settle for what we found power wise so far but what fun would that be? We are willing to put the money up to test and even if something tested does not work we wont give it up or feel it was a waste, just one more factor learned. MrSentraSpecV has a $3500+ intake manifold setup to test something Cory and I have not. In the end we will get the right combo that we are looking for.

I am not worried about the blocks that "failed" and im sure the others are not either. It is real clear now why they failed and it is no surprise.

just adjust this bro.

stratton 2.4
l.a sleeved (name of company from cali) ebay 92mm crank
1st failure: assembly/measurement issue
2nd failure: assembly or oiling failure or tunning issue (broken rod/hole in block)
had a slight sealing problem (chalked up to head gasket or block issues)

just wanted to clear it up, still makes no difference.

i more then anyone wanted my motor or anyone else motor to succeed.

unluckly this didnt happen for alot of us, some of us arent being forthright and open with the community as with all builds there are those that dont speak about the failures.

10 years in the sr20 game and many set ups under my belt ive realized one thing. you cant build a sr20 to compete with other motors that completely out class it in every aspect. if you cant beat em join em comes to mind. there are k24's making 310whp on 93 oct. forget about mentioning the 2.6s that are nearly making 400whp. im not even gonna mention a fully stock k20 with bolt ons making 250ish whp. all off the shelf parts. go google black widows full interior all motor 8th gen civic running 11.7 with all off the shelf parts while our best all motor sr20's struggle to dip into the 11s.

stratton.

I still think it was a timing/tuning issue based on those spark plugs and the piston.

With STD length Eagle rods and CP pistons ordered for the 92mm crank pin height, I still cant see how it could make contact. Unless too much material was taken off the block/head I still cant come to any other conclusion. Especially when the same block/head were used the second time around.

Were all 4 pistons changed? If not it would have made contact the second time around too. There is really nothing else besides the bearing failure or pistons sitting above the deck that would cause that.

Yeah the black widow car is a k24, high compression build but again all off the shelf parts. I believe he has some port work done to the head as well. Again the K series is impressive. For one they come factory as a 2.4 so we are already outclassed there. And then the ability to go up to a 2.7L again with all off the shelf parts. Plain and simple, they have us outdone. But dont think for a second that they dont have just as bad of a failure rate with thier stroked out/bored out builds. For every 3-4 builds, one survives long enough to actually put down some numbers at the track. Most dont make it through the tuning process whether its from a rod going out the block, dropping a valve is probably one of the most common which both the f20 and k20 are notorious for. The fact is there are more k builds out there than sr builds so thats why you see soo many running well. But there are literally 3-4X the ones running that have failed.

I see it all the time. All motor is hard for sure. It definitely takes persistance and determination and lots and lots of money.

The k's failing are again more than likely assembly issues as well or tuning issues. The k's have variable valve timing which can move the intake cam up to 60 deg or so. They have 3 maps to tune, their low lobe map, high lobe map, and variable valve timing map, You tune these wrong and you could very well send a valve right into the piston.

The k is no easy motor to deal with. They have their finiky aspects as well.

I think it was detonation that broke the plug. I know you said you saw a mark on the pistons from the tip but that could have been right from when it intially broke. Again its hard to say.

As for the bearing failure. Im thinking either the rod was overtorqued or there were issues with the crank journals.

my post was just to clear things up so its crystal clear to the next guy who decides to do it. your list will help people in the future.

the first time around was not a tunning issue. the piston was hitting the inside of the head. you could cleary see the contact marks on the piston and the head. the reason for this was la sleeve failing to deck the timing cover with the block even though i informed them to do so and included a brand new oil pump in thew box that was even bolted to the block. so when i got it back and realized the timing cover wasnt decked along with the block i sent it out locally to get decked with the block taking even more material off, however minimal. so the pistons actually stuck out the block. one piston was replaced and everything else gone threw. we then clayed the motor to make sure we had plenty of piston to valve clearance for when we adjusted the cams.

the second time around is puzzling because it ran for close to 1000miles during break in with no issues other then having to add water a few times. wich at the time i atttributed to not fully getting the air out of the coolant system.

we tuned it and it sounded great made upper 250s and had alot left in it. it didnt want to reach temp on the dyno, ran very cool, attributed to the e85s superb cooling characteristics.

beat on it a few times on the way home and it ran like a dream. the last pull of the night was a shift from 4th (cruising speed) to 3rd rev matched and was at about 5.5k or so and landed in vtec. went a secs just chiling at 5.5k-6k and then punched and by 7 grand it let go.

still very puzzling and frustrating to say the least. not even the machine shop could figure out what happened. everyone insisted it was a mis shift or an over rev. but i was driving the car and know that wasnt the case.

stratton.

Rich,

Honda has and always will be on top when it comes to anything FWD import related. Any smart car guy will agree with that regardless if they are NA or on Boost. Hell it's factual but, with that being said I promise you the Honda boys have run into the same issues you guys have especially when trying something out of the ordinary like a big block motor. Hell we can count our fingers on one hand the amount of people who have done what you guys have attempted.

What sucks about this is the amount of money it takes. I guess its all on determination.

Now this goes both ways. Even with the boost guys. Hell we are excited to hit 600 whp when Honda guys are well into the 1000+ whp range. I know I do it because I just love this damn car I own. Not to break reccords and keep up.

same went for me brother, and in a way always will.

we do it because we want to do it. for our selfs and our community. no honda guy will ever be impressed with a b13 or a sr20 for that matter.

as the years pass us by other chassis and platforms become more appealing and leave us farther in the past.

we are and were the hot rodders of our generation. that will never change !

stratton.