Thread: Thoughts on a full race motor setup

going to have to look at an intake manifold for myself soon.
I have a friend that is willing to provide free labour for R+D (I pay for parts only) to develop a set of quad throttles with plenum for sr20ve motors.

Any tips on what sort of specs would be good for a motor wanting to make peak power around 8000-8500rpm with N1 cams?
Specifically plenum volume, bellmount sizes etc?

to be clear

coupling an Intake manifold with a set of cams will easily cost you $1500...with most people in the ve world being notoriously cheap i doubt you will get any large company to make this stuff in bulk. 1-off means more expensive

international business baby. Your dollor is pretty high right now to the rest of the world, bar a few places like japan. You could get an affordable manifold/cam set up made cheaper than mentioned.

I am here in the US, very close to some of you actually.

A Cam/ intake manifold combo would be in the $1500-2000 range easy. That would be with hand fabricated sheet metal intake manifolds. I can get Cast Pieces made here in north america for a decent price but the RnD would be the costly part. But still, at that point you are going to need 100 made at a time, maybe 50 if your lucky, and have to make this manifold to suit 2.0-2.5L motors. I do have parts to build a few very good sheet metal intake manifolds but I am not planning on making these to mass produce by any means. I would have to charge $1000 each to make it worth my time. These take about 8 hrs to build start to bolt on ready and about $400 worth of materials.

As for the turbo cams, those big lobes are only a few degrees larger than a set of standard sr20ve cams advertised, but from .025" and up they get much larger and very fast. Those cams would float the stock valve springs before 6000rpm. The small lobes i was using were stock sr20ve and then a custom set that i designed but they wound up being less superior than what the P12 sr20ve small lobes are from what I can gather.

I would also rather not venture out of the USA, or atleast North America, to get products mass produced. Right now me and most other companies are fighting to compete with China for business. Everyone wants cheap parts. Doesnt matter how much power they make or how long they will last, just that they are cheap. I am not going to design an intake manifold just to have it duplicated in china to help everyone else out except myself. Its not worth it to me.

Oh, those large turbo cams make about 80whp at 8000rpm over stock sr20ve cams drop in 0,0 vs 0,0 cam gear settings. I would make more of these except I have no cores to make anymore of them.

-Ted

yeah hand fabricated stuff would cost at least that. and i wasn't referring to china either, here is aus we are 65 cents to yours, and new zealand isnt bad either. Some of those mass produced china intakes are real bad and would rather run stock. But yeah fair enough, i see where you are coming from.

yeah the cams sound nice i was gonna say at .050 they are huge. Also what turbo was that with? did you gain much midrange? did you run the p12 NA low ex or the p12 vet low ex? I have seen the p12 NA low matched to the vet low and it seemed to go well, but he ran into all sorts of probs when the cams switched...obviously. The 11.3 lift would be pretty nutz for a low ex and matched to a 10.7 it isnt too crazy, specially considering the valve is smaller

also i thought you couldn't run more than about 12.5 lift on the ex of the ve without work done to the valve train? But your are 12.6? Also when you say only a few degrees bigger than stock sr20ve cams, are you talking about p12 or the p11's

pm sent

if i could find out where mr slappy is i would get him to make an IM for me and I would dyno it with charles along with all my cams we have to dyno

hand fabricated stuff isnt cheap at all, i met a guy who was quite good at sheet metal work his aluminum welds were sweet, he showed me some pics of his work, and i mentioned it to him about having an intake mani made for a de motor and even he would charge in the neighborhood of 700 for the piece and again thats no R&D at all, So i mean for what the o2 manis go for they are not that bad and we just need to suck up the price and just spend the money especially on a piece that has been proven to make power.

The simple fact is we want pieces such as the BC's for cams and ssac for turbo manis and intake manifolds. If the ssac turbo manis would withhold to cracking they would be nice because im sure they make more power than a log manifold and probably perform right there with a protech but they just arnt build near as good as the protech. So why not spend the extra 500 bucks to have one from protech that will last forever basicly.

This thread definetly has a lot of info on bacily everything from all motor race builds to big turbo builds. its like an all in one thread. Lets keep this going.


Oh and another thing is, on a ve motor i dont think it would be too bad to leave just the exhaust cam on all the time to reduce overlap. We did have some problems with my buddies 2.2L build because the Calum realtime with VVL trigger was keeping the cams triggered at all time (still under developement so no biggie) and i didnt realize it at first why the motor was running soo bad. It would not idle correctly then i figured it out what was happeneing. It was soo bad that it idle you could hear the rocker arm slapping the cam because it wasnt staying engaged in vvl because of not having enough oil pressure. It actually caused one of the shims to pop out on the exhaust rocker arm causing a lot of valvetrain noise but good thing we caught it early. had to take the cam back out and put the shim back.

Neways back to that. After i figured it out i started by unplugging the intake cam first and sure enough the idle got better, actually manageable, lopey, but managable. Then unplugged the exhaust and the idle was smooth as butter. It actually didnt run too bad with the exhaust cam engaged at all times, but again this is on franklin stage 3's so they are different than the stock 20ve cams. But with the exhaust cam engaged at all time it was holding it engaged at idle without the rocker popping out of high lobe engagement like it was doing with both cams engaged.

So thats definetly something to look at if you are going to use the 20ve cams with engaging the exhaust at all times, definetly make sure you have enough oil pressure to keep it engaged, cuz if not you will definetly hear a loud slapping sound almost like loud piston knock from the rocker popping out of high engagement and trust me it will cause problems with the shims staying in place as the valve comes flying back closed when it shouldnt.

I did have to do some slight massaging to the exhaust rocker arms to get those lobes to clear, no biggie though, just shot peen them afterwards. I was also refering to the large lobes being only a few deg larger than P11 sr20ve camshafts. That setup was with a GT35R turbo .82 turbine housing

-Ted

does the N1 throttle body fit on the standard VE intake manifold ???

this is the abosolute truth! in everyway... 1500 and up! we will see what happens, mrslappy seems to be right about a lot of things concerning the ve motor.