Thread: Thoughts on a full race motor setup

well kelfords is working on a new cam now right?

also this is my opinion an only an opinion, but i think miko's cam specs are not good.

if go an na ve, and when i have finished my turbo project i want to, in a little ke70 rolla and strip it down to around 700-800kg's, it will be a budget but hopefully effective build. I'll prob just get a 16ve engine and drop the head, cams, and pistons into a 20l de block run it only on e85 to utilize the compression. Should make some good power as ve's seem to love timing.tbh i want to see what a ve does with normal mods on e85 or c16

^ Let's see what cam specs you can come up with.

I have come up with a couple, and also like miko i have said for years that the 20v lows and n1 highs would be a great cam for years.

if i was to trow specs out there i would say some 20v lows, combined with a 292 12.6 in high, and 295 12.2 high ex. i wont go into the centerlines, but they will be very close to the n1 centerlines.

but miko and i are both not cam specialists. He will be able to make a valid argument against mine and i can make a valid argument against his.

hell the 20v/n1 cam is available now, people have been saying for years if it was available it would be the bomb, now that it is available....where are these people?

I have measured and degreed almost every sr20ve camshaft that is out there and i can tell you that if you are spelling out specs compared to the factory numbers that are listed in this forum in the FAQ section, then you really do not know why or how the N1's make the power they do and how to improve on them.

The other important factor is yes in cylinder head flow but most of us already know that the VE head ( or atleast most of them) flow enough to make more power than a B series with some bigger cams. The other problem though is the intake manifolds. these work but do not have enough flow and limit the potential of these motors. The Kelford cams are large enough to make power and have decent profiles but there are only a few motors out there that actually may have the potential to run these.

The N1 cams are not designed for a 2.0L motor and thus the opening/closing ramps and centerlines are designed around a 68.7mm stroke with a 2.10 R/S ratio and with less displacement these cams are not anywhere near optimized for a 2.0L motor. these are designed around the VE head though as the 1.6 and 2.0 heads are the same casting and have the same/similar flow properties.

The main thing that is needed for a lot of power from these motors is yes cams, but besides that, before that, you need a lot of intake flow. That includes the cylinder head AND the intake manifold. The N1 is not designed for a 2.0L motor and will actually max out the flow and have low port velocity on a 2.0L or larger motor.

Yes I believe the VE motor has a lot of potential but it will cost a lot of $$ and only a few people will actually put the $$ into it as needed.

as for the 100mm crank option, i'm sure there's someway to get that done. i mean a QR25 crank is 99mm and is similar enough and could be made to work. a 100mm crank in a sr20 block with a 5mm raised wrist pin location in the piston will be a 134mm rod and a R/S of 1.34.

you are not the first one to consider calling crane or comp cams or any other company about making cams for the VE. Most companies will only start to make them if there is a lot of demand or the motor is very popular... Yes there are few VE motors getting around there now, but still.... look at why JWT has not made them yet... they have a bigger market to focus on to make them more money.

The companies here want more than just a phone call to get these cams started... I'm not sure what franklin and kelford are doing, but they still have not shown or proven any solid evidence of their cams actually making power and being a solid performer over n1's...

SR20DE crank 86mm
QR style crank 99 mm

Diffrence between these cranks 13mm.


Now if you were to keep the standard SR20 rod in there the pin height would have to be moved up 6.5mm or 1/4 inch higher. Just from looking at the piston there is not enough room to do so.

Now. if you were to do so the block would need to be made taller or the rod ratio would completly suck.

Lastly fitting that crank in the SR20 would be next to impossible. The amount of notching that has to be done to clear a 91mm Tomei crank is crazy as is.

The oil galley that feeds oil to the pistons and the crank would not be able to flow oil with the 99mm crank. With the tomei crank you have to notch that section and the wall is very thin so with a 99mm crank you would have to comletly brake into the oil passage other wise the rod bolt will do it for you and both ways no go.

There is just not enough rotational room. There are more reasons but not going on.

agreed

from you experience as i like to ask everyone, what is the best intake manifold dimensions you have seen work best? for na applications. i might end up going 4age 20v open throttles with my far off na project, but still like to see peoples experiences with intake manifold trial and error as the intake on the sr20ve make a big difference for the reasons you have mentioned.

also interested in that, will be looking at getting a custom intake manifold made (But not quad throttles, too expensive and a bit tricky to get right)

Not to get off topic, who is making off the shelf 20v/N1 cams available now? EVLNXR was the only one recently that tested the combo cams but these are not in production yet are they? Some of us people are still waiting to see if these are real, not just another one-off wonder. Franklin or Kelford ? On intake manifolds. a member named Cory had one made for him that made more power across the board, especially in the higher RPMs. Word was mentioned about the length of the runners being a factor in increasing the velocities needed to improve flow. On the cam issue, it sucks that JWT is sitting on billets of VE cam blanks because there isn't a demand in the market large enough to justify production. They could build the optimal VE cams we want because of their SR20 roots but not enough of us are banging down their door to make it worth their time. The VE came too late for us here for vendors to R&D it's potential like the DE back in the day and even then Honda was raking in the profits and the support. If someone on the forums can get 225-230whp NA out of the VE anytime soon you will have the attention of everyone here and give the rest of us hope. Sorry for the long rant, just don't know if it can be done anymore.....

Short Runner Intake Manifold I designed that was made 4 years ago that worked.