Thread: SR20DET tuning help needed

Hi everyone.

So I am here to ask for some tuning advice on my SR20DET. I am using Nistune and have been for a few months, I am quite familiar with it and feel confident in tuning my fuel and everything else except my timing. This is the one area I haven't really played with because I'm afraid blowing up my motor.

Below are my fuel and timing maps as it is currently. I have been using this map for a while now and everything seems ok, no audible knock and my AFR's are 11.8-12.0 at WOT.

Here are the specs of my setup:
- W10 SR20DET
- Stock T25 turbo (mine is ball bearing)
- Boost adjusted on waste gate actuator, varies between 12-14 PSI.
- Stock turbo manifold
- Stock 370cc DET injectors (purple caps)
- SR20DE MAF (It is reaching its limit, hits 4.9V)
- Nisune Type 3

Timing:
http://i629.photobucket.com/albums/uu17/GrImMy_Pics/Timing.jpg


Fuel:
http://i629.photobucket.com/albums/uu17/GrImMy_Pics/Fuel.jpg


I have read a few manuals about tuning basics etc, but I just can't find a definitive answer regarding tuning timing. I understand that being on a dyno will be the best way to do this, but I don't really have access to one for tuning purposes. Any advice you guys could give me would be appreciated!

Also, this is at about 4500ft. altitude. Don't know if that helps

Thank you.

Forgot to add. The fuel is 95RON

1. First thing do you have a wideband?
2. Second thing do you have a way to watch for knock?
3. Do you have dyno access?

If you don't have a wideband, and don't have dyno access with a wideband don't touch fuel or timing until you do.
If you don't have a way to monitor knock, you can get away with just watching your numbers on the dyno.

Tuning timing is a fairly simple concept, run as much timing as you can without knocking. If your on the dyno, just keep on adding timing until you stop making power, that's when your about to knock. Back off a few degrees and go to the next area to tune.

Hey Vadim thanks for the reply.
1) Yes I have an AEM wideband in car.
2) Knock sensor on the motor but its stuffed, haven't experienced knock before so not sure how easy it is to hear or monitor?
3) I have dyno access yes, but very very difficult time wise to get to one for tuning. I doubt they will allow me to use it for an hour while tuning myself. It's usually tuner's dyno's and then they tune your car. But no one supports Nistune thats why I do it myself.

Regarding AFR's, like I said I made sure they are correct. My WOT AFR's are between 11.8 and 12.0.

What would be the best way to tune timing without a dyno? I have read on this here forum that using a EGT sensor is a good way of doing it because you can see the heat range vs. timing and know more or less where its firing. But I don't feel too confident that an EGT on one cylinder will do the trick?

Isn't there a "rule of thumb" for tuning timing? Or maybe someone with a good working map with correct timing.. I'm just scared that I'm running maybe too much timing at the moment under WOT.

One thing I personally run is Enthalpy timing on my DET, it's pretty good and gained me around 15whp over stock Avenir timing map.

I personally tune my car on the street, I have limited dyno access myself. Before I used to tune it blindly, kind of like you have to right now. Now I'm using a Nemu and NismoTronic. First thing I do is make a single gear run on a straight road. NismoTronic shows me if there is a knock, but then I export it to CSV and then plug it into Virtual Dyno.

Here is a run, with no knock yay!


Finally VirtualDyno takes the CSV file and calculates WHP. You can do side by side graphing, thus if you do side by side runs you can see if more timing made more power or not. This is still not as fine/accurate as dyno, but better then nothing! I do believe VirtualDyno now supports Nistune CSV's thanks to @lynchfourtwenty


P.S. I hate nistune's white text on bright cell's, always impossible to read in pictures

yep, thanks to me virtual dyno supports nistune cvs's

Boooooooooooooo

Awesome. Firstly, I'm pretty sure that link to the ethalpy guide within the link you just posted is pointing to the wrong location, it points to some avatar thread. I would love read through that guide and adapt it to my situation. Got it on any other source?

I just checked out that VirtualDyno software, looks like it can help me out a lot! Thanks for the info.

So what would be safe levels of timing for an average setup like mine at that boost or even lower boost? I get the feeling I'm running WAY too much timing.. Also, what knock sensing equipment do you use? Is the stock knock sensor OK or should I look into aftermarket options?

Cheers

The pictures are posted locally on this site, well there is a bug where if your not my "friend" it wont let you see the pictures . I just sent you a friend request and that should do the trick.



It's very good software, comes in very handy!



I'm using the stock knock sensor, which is accurate to 4800 rpm. Nistune might have a way for you to log knock, check this thread out, but after 4800 you are a bit blind. One way to see is do one run, instantly shut the car off and pull a plug or two and look for black speckles on the porcelain, that's detonation causing material and oil to burn in.

Your timing map is ok, mine is far more aggressive. But I am also running 8psi for now. What's the PSI to TP correlation on your setup? Like what PSI are you at under those columns.

Cool thanks. Just followed the links again and it still goes to here Don't know what could be wrong. Is it a bunch of images or a PDF file maybe email would work?


I'm pretty sure there will be a way to monitor knock with Nistune. Will give it a try after getting a working knock sensor on the engine. Can you log knock to more than 4800RPM or is this a limitation of the stock sensor?

Well like I said, the car pulls smooth and has no weird sounds when doing a run, but then again I don't know how to "listen" for knock. Best bet is just trying to log as much as I can. Luckily with the DET peak torque will be reached before 4800RPM so should be OK.

I've seen maps with less than 10deg timing in the boost ramp up area, and thats why I thought mine is incredibly high. I don't quite know my PSI vs. TP as I have no way of logging it.. But from what I have seen on my boost gauge I hit about 13-14PSI at about 3500RPM maybe more, which I'm assuming will cause max load.. Then it slowly drops down to about 11PSI as I reach 6500RPM. Don't know if that helps sorry :o