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Thread: Rev Limiter Discussion

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Posts: 31-40 of 70
2010-04-17 22:47:20
#31
Spark cut only: rally style anti-lag although I believe that's technically spark retard (same as a two-step rev limiter).

I'm sure the nitrous guys might have a whole host of specific worries/plans.

I read some random post on an SRT-4 forum warning another user about about spark cut (I think) but for the life of me I can't understand the logic. It still haunts me though. =/
2010-04-18 01:35:20
#32
spark cut!
2010-04-18 02:34:48
#33
spark cut kills cats. And sets old ladies on fire.
2010-04-18 02:48:28
#34
Originally Posted by BenFenner
I think a spark and fuel cut at the same time (or spark cut right before fuel) would be the best compromise. However a soft limiter using spark retard would be a sweet option as well.

Like a lot of people I've never liked a fuel cut on aggressive turbo engines and I think the science backs me up there. From the video they found as much as a 1/3 of an injection worth of fuel just chillin' in a puddle in the intake runner. This puddle is kept liquid by the boost pressure and sheer amount of fuel. When the boost pressure drops (like when you lift the throttle) all of that fuel instantly evaporates in the low pressure air and is ingested by the engine giving natural deceleration enrichment (which is nice) but during a WOT rev limit hit where the fuel is cut I believe the fuel is also able to be evaporated into the dry air (which now is not saturated with fuel) and also ingested by the engine causing potentially lethal lean ignition events.


As for cutting things cylinder-by-cylinder instead of all at once. I think if you can do that easily and cut each cylinder in a safe way I don't see why not to do that.


The puddle I referred to is called the "Tau"? puddle, and is referenced in a lot of tuning books I've read. It has been very difficult to actually piece all of this information together for me. It seems like every other person I talk to has conflicting statements about whether or not it would cause detonation. Some said there is not enough fuel to actually combust. I've talked to several tuners about this puddle, and a lot of them looked at me funny, scratching their heads.

I even brought it up to JWT and their tech said they have never heard of this. The factory Nissan computer cuts injectors one at a time for the rev limit.

I had my ignition cut set at 7400rpm with the JWT limiter at 7500rpm and I would still "bounce" the limiter. I set the MSD to 7300rpm and it stops right there! Also, the torque curve suggests that the MSD pulls timing by a few degrees on the top just before the actual cut. It makes it very very smooth. Look at my 3rd gear burnout video and you can see how smooth it is.

I would also be interested in seeing how the engine responds to throttle opening and this puddle. If in fact the puddle exists in an area of high pressure, the change of throttle may effect the properties of evaporation of this puddle as well. Perhaps the "letting up" on the throttle just before fuel cut created a lean condition?
2010-04-18 02:55:21
#35
YouTube - 3rd gear rolling burnout

ignition cut. Oh ya.
2010-04-19 12:55:22
#36
Originally Posted by dfddfd2
I have the spark cut synced to the injector cut code running on the bench, just need some real world testing. Is there any scenario where someone would want fuel cut only or spark cut only?

Thanks,
Dave


I have no problem testing for you, Dave. Shoot me an e-mail? I wouldn't want fuel cut only, I'd prefer spark cut. I don't like the idea of detonation at the rev limiter, in full boost.
2010-04-23 17:32:49
#37
Really sorry I hadn't sent it off to you yet, Dave. I'll get it off to you tonight. I want to pull the bin from the car just to be sure that I give you the current bin loaded.
2010-04-23 18:38:08
#38
Was reading today how a spark cut only will ruin BMW M20 rockers on turbo engines. The exhaust valve opens and the mixture explodes in the exhaust manifold causing the valve to shoot up against the rocker and break it (the M20 has known weak rockers).

Apparently spark cut comes from the days of carbs before fuel could be cut. Most people recommend and prefer a fuel cut. I'm not 100% convinced it's completely safe although it's going to be better than a strict spark cut.

I still think cutting both at the same time is best or if you have to then cut fuel first immediately followed by spark. There must be a reason why it isn't traditionally done that way since it seems so simple, easy, and effective. I feel like I'm missing something.
2010-04-23 19:33:51
#39
BEE R rev limiter



2010-04-28 15:30:55
#40
Originally Posted by BenFenner
I still think cutting both at the same time is best or if you have to then cut fuel first immediately followed by spark. There must be a reason why it isn't traditionally done that way since it seems so simple, easy, and effective. I feel like I'm missing something.


I've added a flag to enable/disable fuel cut, and another flag for spark cut. In the event that both are disabled, should the default be:
1) both are disabled (no rev limiters, including launch control)
2) enable fuel cut only
3) enable spark cut only
4) enable both anyway

Thanks,
Dave
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