Thread: Rules for Classifieds - discussion

Mark, I consider us friends. We've eaten a tasty breakfast in your family's diner. Similar to what you said to Cliff below, if someone was fucking with you in my presence, I'd choke them unconscious and then rip their head off their neck for good measure. I'd do it before you could blink.

However my friend, your statement above smacks of a threat, or a promise as I occasionally like to call it. It is divisive and counter-productive unless facing an enemy. I would hope that we, collectively, are not enemies on this forum.

Do we, as a community, really need to split off and make yet another forum over this situation? Does that serve anybodies best interests?


This is a valid point, and should be taken under consideration as a possible rule change.

However, until the rule is re-examined and possibly changed, it must be universally enforced by Staff and followed by everybody. Chapnutz, Ben, Cliff, and surely you understand this concept.


Yessir, a solid point of agreement.

As for that ad with no pic, I'da reported that in an instant.

I probably report a couple posts a week, easy. Sometimes more. When I post while activated, I often report my own post, knowing I am probably out of line, but just unable to stop myself. No kidding. I can just see the Staff now..."WTF is that madman Shawn doing now..?"


This is a cryin' shame, but I have asked about "what would make...Supercowboy, Jamie, Mike K, etc..stay active on the forum?"

The answer is always a deafening silence.

There is no easy answer as to why one person leaves, another comes back (SE-Rawkus) and then promising newbies pop up amidst the throngs of newbies that obviously ain't cut out for the long haul.


Pretty hard to do both fairly as Justin (Chapnutz) has stated that he wants everyone treated equally, regardless of who they are or what credibility they have accrued. No favoritism is his request.

Maybe you and Justin could arm-wrestle it out?


Banhammer. Nuff said.

And you should change that to Admin-Nazi. I'm a military brat, you gotta address folks correctly within the Chain Of Command.


Not every mod is going to make every member happy. You can please some of the people some of the time, but no one can please all the people all the time.

Can the other members of this group kindly step up? Air out all the grievances thoroughly.


Ben did so. Following the Rules universally as requested by Chapnutz, but being a bit lenient. "Fix such-and-such, and I'll re-open the the (temporarily closed) thread." Apparently, even while being lenient, Bens actions spawned this thread.


The VIN number thing should be decided at a Staff level, voted upon, and then implemented across the board. Apparently you are not the only one that does not want to post a VIN.

I've never thought about it, because my Classic will be my casket.


A) Rule changes may be in order, but in the meantime we have to fairly and universally apply and enforce the rules we have in place.

B) It's a cryin' shame. Still have no idea in hell how to retain more members or more key-expert members.


100% Agreement on all of that, especially the bolded part.

Shawn B





Then that requires a Rule Change. I'm pretty sure the Staff now knows about the objections to the VIN requirement.

However, once they decide one way or the other, it needs to be followed and enforced universally.


You want to move the responsibility for correct information from the advertiser to the Staff.

Analogy:

A person gets a "fix it" ticket from the Police for an out of date Inspection Sticker. A minor infraction, but a ticket is issued and it is up the Offender to go prove to the Court that the issue is fixed. The Offender is annoyed as hell, but goes and gets the Inspection Sticker, shows up in Court, and the ticket is dismissed. The Offender is now in compliance, and paid no fine. Life goes on.

Under your request:

A person gets a "fix it" warning ticket from the Police for an out of date Inspection Sticker.

The Police Officer that issued the ticket must now keep track of all the "fix it warning tickets" that he has issued. Then he must go back to all the vehicles, check on whether or not the Offender fixed the issue, and if the Offender did not fix the issue, then the Officer must issue an actual "fix it" ticket.

On our Forum:

Currently the onus to fix the issue and report back to Staff is on the Advertiser (Forum Member). Just like our Judicial System works with a "fix it" ticket.

You want to change the responsibility for seeing that the issue is fixed, from the Forum Member (Advertiser) to the Staff. Make the Staff keep track of who is not in compliance and has been warned, check back with those ads not in compliance, and then delete or permanently lock the thread.

That is taking the responsibility for a correct ad from the Advertiser (Forum Member) and putting that responsibility on the plate of the Staff. Having to babysit, monitor and follow up who actually follows the warning "fix it" ticket, and who does not.

In effect making the Staff re-ask "Did you fix it?" instead of the Advertiser (Forum Member) saying "I fixed it."

i dont really agree with your "fix it" ticket comparison, there is no similarity...if you guys want that info in the thread, then monitor the threads better because it is not fair in any means and way out of line to lock 2 threads because there is no vin listed when there is at minimum 2 dozen other threads without the same info...and there is STILL one OPEN without the vin...BULL SHIT, do your job correctly or get the fcuk out, do you think if you were a QC person for a company and you had 100 pieces roll by you in hands reach and out of them 10 were defective but you removed 2...how long would you be employed there, not long at all

Shawn I have met you at the previous convention and enjoyed your company greatly do in this statement I am not attacking you but I do not agree as you keep stating the staff will take a look at it vote and change accordingly. Why should say 6 people ( just rough example ) should vote and set a rule in place that say 100 community members have to follow I believe there should be a thread started for rule changes and the community should vote on what they want. #2 issue I see so far two moderators complaining about workload of normal responsibilities of a moderator but they have time to come up and implement a like button when it's just as easy to post thank you or nice post after it like we have been doing since original forum.

I'll repeat the important part, with no ticket-analogy:

That is taking the responsibility for a correct ad from the Advertiser (Forum Member) and putting that responsibility on the plate of the Staff. Having to babysit, monitor and follow up who actually follows the warning to correct their ad, and who does not.

In effect making the Staff re-ask "Did you fix it?" instead of the Advertiser (Forum Member) saying "I fixed it."



They are monitoring the threads. And being lenient by temporarily locking threads (not deleting them) until the Advertiser says "there, I fixed it."



100% agreement. Ben has already stated that he is also in 100% agreement with you on this point.

Maybe Cliff should cut Ben loose on the Classifieds? Oh wait...that would piss of MarkSR20. Catch-22.


I agree, we should fire the Mods that are not doing their jobs correctly and earning their pay. For that type of money, they damn sure better be doing a top-quality, meticulous, job.

Oh wait....it is a position that is open only by invitation, and no one gets any pay. They selflessly do it with no pay, the best they can, for the benefit of the forum and it's members.

I've never been a Mod. Not suited given my personality and temperament. I wonder if there could be "Mod For A Week" that rotates amongst regular Forum Members? Maybe make all their MFAW actions be approved by a Super Moderator before the given action takes actual effect? So someone that was (selflessly and without pay) serving the community as "Mod For A Week" did not just run rampant but could get a better understanding of the work, commitment and process involved with being a Mod.

Hell, a Forum Member who did an outstanding job as MFAW might be considered for a "Section Mod" position (like the Classifieds for instance ) or even considered as a possible Super Moderator.

No attacks, I'm not activated, we're just discussing and occasionally cussing.

I do NOT want to see you, Chapnutz, MarkSR20, Dave, etc...etc..leave. I do NOT like it when Jamie, Supercowboy, Mike K, etc...quit posting. Both of which weaken the community overall and are therefore entirely counterproductive.

You have a valid point to be considered on the vote thing. I disagree with it, but only because I am so used to Privately Owned forums being run by an Administrator(s) that owns the forum and makes the final decision. Then there is also the Congress of Super Mods that I *think* comes to some consensus on Rules, with and/or upon final veto or approval by the Admins (?).

Further, if you personally owned a business, ran it, collected the money, kept the lights on, staffed the business, kept up with the latest technology and all that stuff for servers and computer gobble-de-gook, equipment, yada-yada, would you allow your employees or customers to make the final decision on anything? Suggestions? Absolutely, if you are a smart business owner you'll definitely listen to both your employees and customers. But to allow them, Staff or customers, to outvote you by majority decision?

Please elaborate further on your suggestion.

Should only folks that are Forum Contributor be allowed to vote on Rules? Those would be the folks "paying to keep the lights on" since we have so little advertising nonsense. Just that little bit of easy-to-ignore clutter up at the header thing.

Should we vote on whether we get to vote on Rules?

i am still biased to your statements...i totally understand what it takes and what is needed to be mod...supervisor positions will do that to you, the best comparison is as if you were a qc person...have to treat them all the same(i sound like a broken record now) but there is no real defense to what happened in the section...2 threads closed, 24hrs not 24 minutes or seconds, 24 hours or a complete day before anything else was done total bull shit, that is the issue not that he closed the threads(i personally care less) or that mine was closed(if it was someone else i would be here saying the same thing) i at a loss for words

I understand you are pissed. Ben and I agree with you that things should be fair across the board for all forum members.

I understand why. You want things Moderated fairly, efficiently, and thoroughly across the board. Correct me if I am wrong.

What would make you happy? You want a public apology for what you consider crappy, sub-standard work by the Staff?

How do you want this scenario to be resolved? What would chill you out and put a smile on your face?

If you walked into the Sears Store and got hold of the Manager because you are pissed about an issue, you ultimately have to know what you are seeking in compensation so you can ask for (demand) it. Ie...Do you want a replacement product or your money back? Do you want an employee corrected or their head on a proverbial platter and a pink slip in their box? Do you want an apology and review of the Store Policies? Do you want more toilet paper, paper towels and soap in the Mens Room, and clean it better while you're at it cause it's disgusting? Then the Manager can comply to make you happy or not, depending on the validity of your complaint.

i am not pissed, no i dont want a public apology, but that did make me LoL-i would really like to know who so called brought my thread up to ben's attention...i dont want to here "one of my peer's" and if you close a thread for something look for others

I vote no VIN...also, it would be nice if there were a 1 moderator-posted warning on any problems with the ad listed.

#1 I have no clue. I report threads all the time, but I definitely did not report yours for a missing VIN. If I had? You know damn well I'd say so. Just to piss you off.

I know you understand that reporting threads, for whatever reason, is helping the (*cough* overworked, underpaid) Mods to do their jobs better. Whomever reported your thread may have had fully good intentions. While accidentally setting off this fire-and-brimstone-shit-storm.

#2 seems pretty simple and I'm fairly confident that Cliff his-bad-Admin-self has heard and understood your message. Cliff is occasionally hard-headed but he sure as hell is not unintelligent or illiterate. And...ahem...your message is coming through loud and clear, and agreed with by Ben and myself (for what that is worth).