Thread: Rules for Classifieds - discussion

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2015-07-02 19:00:08

#361

Kyle

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I did not want to request it, that kinda steam-rolled into a "quasi-request" from other replies but I don't need it nor desire it.... It was simply a means to have stopped my post from being so contentious in the eyes of others. (as requested)

I certainly agree there are more pressing matters that require attention, first.

EDIT: I was answering Chris' questions from what I can read in the timeline of the thread. I apologize for any inconvenience. @BenFenner

Last edited by Kyle on 2015-07-02 at 19-08-42.

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2015-07-03 12:02:09

#362

BenFenner

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@Kyle, all day yesterday I was unable to see the image that Chriscar posted, so I wasn't following the conversation really well. Sorry about that.
If you still have questions about that, let me know.

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2015-07-03 13:36:56

#363

ebinkerd

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Originally Posted by BenFenner

It's just a transition period we'll get through Crim.
If I had a For Sale thread that got deleted, I'd be pretty pissed that I didn't get a warning either, but hopefully I could get the text back with a PM so I could recreate it with the new format.
The rules have been around for a long time now. They are in black and white. I wouldn't have much of a leg to stand on to complain. If I did complain, I'd say I'd deserve to be ignored as long as the rules were being applied to everyone.

Shame your focus and motivation as a mod has changed so drastically over the years @BenFenner. Take a look back at your roots and see how this thread made your moderatorship.

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2015-07-03 13:49:57

#364

BenFenner

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You have no fucking clue what you're talking about.

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2015-07-04 00:32:14

#365

BenFenner

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Originally Posted by BenFenner

Originally Posted by ebinkerd
@BenFenner Can you site the referenced decision from 2010 to clarify A decision was made? I see no mention of this in the 9 pages of discussion.
I'll see what I can dig up after lunch.

I really thought I was going crazy there for a bit. I was finding absolutely no mention of the ban on sales in the regional sections after hours and hours of searching (well, I did find the idea proposed a few times between 2007-2010 in the mod section). I knew I'd find it eventually, and I have. I found mention of an announcement issued some time before September 2011. I haven't found the announcement yet, but I sure as shit remember it. I will find it. I am hot on the trail now.
And now that I've basically researched the entire history of the rules for the classifieds, it has become much clearer how this oversight happened. More on that later.

I want to reiterate that clearly this rule was never properly copied over to the official rules for the classifieds. That was a big failure on the staff's part which I am working diligently to rectify. It should have been done immediately following the announcement. When I say I'm going to fix it, that doesn't mean I'm going to copy the rule over. Whether or not we still want this rule around is still up for discussion in this thread: http://www.sr20-forum.com/server-news/77993-rules-regarding-classified-ads-regional-sections-need-reconciling-please-vote.html

Last edited by BenFenner on 2015-07-04 at 01-40-42.

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2015-07-04 01:13:25

#366

unijabnx2000 Online/offline status of unijabnx2000 is unknown

This will not end well

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I dont even know what the fuss is about.... (not reading all the bickering)

Why are ya'll tryinig to hard to find something that old?

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2015-07-04 14:57:14

#367

BenFenner

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@unijabnx2000, I'll give you a quick synopsis.

- I saw one, then three, then dozens of Classified Ads in the regional sections.
- I deleted/locked those threads according to a rule against this that I was sure existed.
- @ebinkerd pointed out that he couldn't find the rule against this. And found that the woefully out-of-date Terms of Service explicitly do allow this.
- I took a look and agreed that the rule is not easily found (if it exists at all). And the way this "rule" has been treated recently is confusing and contradictory at best.
- We will not hold people accountable for rules that can't easily be found or aren't actually written down, so I restored/unlocked the threads.
- We are now in the process of figuring out if we should allow classified ads in the regional sections.
- Part of that process is figuring out the history of this "rule", and why most of us believe this rules exists when none of us can find record of it.
- I've found out the new rule was announced in an "announcement" (a special thread impossible to miss at the time) in all of the regional sections some time in 2011, I just need to find it.

Last edited by BenFenner on 2015-07-04 at 15-07-40.

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2015-07-04 16:34:46

#368

BenFenner

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Update:

I found the announcements which banned classified ads in the regional sections. I've made a post about it here, and then closed that thread.
If people want to discuss this further they are welcome to do so in this thread, or create a new thread/poll on the topic in the Server News section.

Here is a copy of what I posted in the other thread:

Originally Posted by BenFenner

Okay, I've found the record of the rule against posting classified ads in the regional sections.

Vadim posted this announcement in all regional sections on January 27th, 2011 and it was set to display for 1 day:

Originally Posted by Vadim's
Cross Posting For Sale threads in regional sections is not allowed and is now enforced. Going forward any classified post that gets created in the Regional Chapters will be automatically deleted or closed.

If your thread/post gets removed it is your responsibility to post it in the correct For Sale section.

Why are we enforcing this?
Regional Chapters are designed for anyone to see and post in. Thus we cannot enforce the minimum post count or the For Sale template. Plus having all Sale threads in a single section should help with searching for parts.

Displaying this message for a day was likely a mistake, so Crim posted this announcement in all regional sections the next day (January 28th, 2011) and set it to display for 3 years and 1 month (sadly, the announcement expired and disappeared from view on February 28th, 2014 ):

Originally Posted by Crim's
Cross Posting For Sale threads in regional sections is not allowed and is now enforced.

This announcement has been affective for some time. Rather than send notices and close your threads for being in the incorrect section, we'll now simply delete the thread with no notification.

You will now notice a classifieds subsection within each regional section.

This is to easily view items that are listed for sale within your local area.

How do I create a new thread within my regional classifieds section?

You don't. You post in the correct classifieds section. When you create your post, part of that process includes selecting which state you live in. When you do this, it will automatically appear under the correct regional classifieds listing.

Why are we enforcing this?

Regional Chapters are designed for anyone to see and post in. Thus we cannot enforce the minimum post count or the For Sale template. Having all Sale threads in a single section should help with searching for parts, as well as help prevent potential scammers from walking away with your money.

In my opinion this completely re-frames the debate. I'd never have created this poll if I'd found this earlier. The rule is there, and has been there and enforced for a long time (I saw plenty of threads deleted from the regional sections over the past year or so, deleted by no less than four different staff members). There were good reasons behind the creation of the rule (going all the way back to March 2008 when Rittmeister started championing the rule), and in my opinion that reasoning still holds water today. With that in mind, I will be formally adding this rule to the Rules For The Classifieds where it should have been copied over back at the beginning of 2011.
I will also re-issue the announcement by extending the expiration date.

People are going to have to come up with some very good reasons from this post forward to remove this rule before we consider removing it on a permanent basis.
In my opinion, this particular poll of mine is no longer relevant so I am closing this thread. Please continue the discussion on the Rules For The Classifieds in the sticky thread for that: http://www.sr20-forum.com/server-news/41067-rules-classifieds-discussion.html

If you'd like to create your own poll, you are still welcome to do so.

Now... Because the search feature for finding classified ads in your region of choice is broken, I am going to temporarily suspend enforcement of this rule until we/I can get the search feature back. I feel like this is an extremely fair compromise. I hope you all do too.

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2015-07-04 21:11:57

#369

BenFenner

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I have updated the rules for the classifieds. Red is for deletions, green is for additions, and orange is for changes.
I formalized the rule against posting classified ads anywhere on the forum except in the classifieds sections.
I also reworded a few other things to add links and make them clearer.

Old rules:

Rules for the Classifieds (Revised as of April 9, 2012):

The Classifieds forums are a favor to the users, allowing them to buy and sell items amongst themselves. SR20-forum.com takes NO responsibility for ANY transactions made by its users, and advises users that the principle of 'caveat emptor' (let the buyer beware) is very much in effect. Some users aren't reliable, and it's the buyer’s responsibility to ensure they don't lose their money.

? You must have a minimum of 15 posts to be able to list items for sale on SR20-forum.com

? Required information:
1. Your real name
2. Your location (City, state is sufficient)
3. Where you’re willing to ship or not (local pick-up only is fine)
4. Contact info (email, AIM, PM, whatever you prefer)
5. PRICE - I don't care if you want offers or if you're trying to start a bidding war. SET A PRICE. You can always put OBO after it.
6. Payment options (paypal, money order, whatever)
7. Picture of item being sold

Failure to include the above information will result in your post being deleted, and repeat offenders will result in a ban

? You MUST include a picture of your item. At this point pretty much everybody's got a digital camera or a phone with camera, or you can borrow one. Therefore, no more 'Email for pics.' If you have pics of the items you're selling, put them online and link to them or hotlink them in the thread.

? Bumping Rule: The original poster can reply to their thread for a pure "bump" if the thread hasn't seen any activity (from OP or otherwise) in a 24 hour period.

All other replies, questions, and banter is allowed for both the OP and others with two exceptions. See below.

? Negative commentary: Do not trash someone's item because you don't like it or them and do not flame a person because you think they are asking too high a price. Use a Private Message. Your post will be deleted if your post is, or could be construed by the OP as purely negative and not constructive. If the price is too high for the market to support, the seller will find out soon enough.

? Grievances : The classified section is also NOT your forum for airing grievances - we have a feedback section for that, so keep it there.

? You MAY link in the classifieds to an Ebay auction you are running.

? You MAY NOT link to sale topics on other message boards. Just copy and paste here, very simple.

? No “Gauging Interest” or “Testing Waters” threads. If you're looking for a value, post in the appropriate section elsewhere on the board.

? No "selling for friends," listing for friends, etc. Tell them to sign up and post themselves (after they've been here a while, that is).

? No annoying, distracting symbols in thread titles!

? NO CROSS-POSTING.

? No Commercial Selling

? No group buys in this forum please, use the Group Buys Forum. If you wish to post a group buy, you must contact the Admin (Crim) first! All un-approved group buys will be unceremoniously deleted.

? Spam will not be tolerated in any form.

? Topics will be moved/locked/deleted without warning at the moderators' discretion.

? Trades are subject to the same rules as the For Sale threads. If you have a trade post it in the For Sale section using the For Sale template.

Discussion Thread

New rules:

Rules for the Classifieds:

The Classifieds forums are a favor to the users, allowing them to buy and sell items amongst themselves. SR20-forum.com takes NO responsibility for ANY transactions made by its users, and advises users that the principle of 'caveat emptor' (let the buyer beware) is very much in effect. Some users aren't reliable, and it's the buyer’s responsibility to ensure they don't lose their money.

? All classified ads must be placed in the Forum Classifieds section(s).

? You must have a minimum of 15 posts to be able to list items for sale.

? Required information:
1. Your real name
2. Your location (City, state is sufficient)
3. Where you're willing to ship or not (local pick-up only is fine)
4. Contact info (email, AIM, PM, whatever you prefer)
5. PRICE - I don't care if you want offers or if you're trying to start a bidding war. SET A PRICE. You can always put OBO after it.
6. Payment options (paypal, money order, whatever)
7. Picture of item being sold

Failure to include the above information will result in your post being deleted, and repeat offenders will result in a ban

? You MUST include a picture of your item. At this point pretty much everybody's got a digital camera or a phone with camera, or you can borrow one. Therefore, no more 'Email for pics.' If you have pics of the items you're selling, put them online and link to them or hotlink them in the thread.

? Bumping Rule: The original poster can reply to their thread for a pure "bump" if the thread hasn't seen any activity (from OP or otherwise) in a 24 hour period.

All other replies, questions, and banter is allowed for both the OP and others with two exceptions. See below.

? Negative commentary: Do not trash someone's item because you don't like it or them and do not flame a person because you think they are asking too high a price. Use a Private Message. Your post will be deleted if your post is, or could be construed by the OP as purely negative and not constructive. If the price is too high for the market to support, the seller will find out soon enough.

? Grievances : The classified section is also NOT your forum for airing grievances - we have a feedback section for that, so keep it there.

? You MAY link in the classifieds to an Ebay auction you are running.

? You MAY NOT link to sale topics on other message boards. Just copy and paste here, very simple.

? No “Gauging Interest” or “Testing Waters” threads. If you're looking for a value, post in the appropriate section elsewhere on the board.

? No "selling for friends," listing for friends, etc. Tell them to sign up and post themselves (after they've been here a while, that is).

? No annoying, distracting symbols in thread titles!

? NO CROSS-POSTING.

? No Commercial Selling

? No group buys outside of the Group Buys section. If you wish to post a group buy, you must contact an Administrator first! All un-approved group buys will be unceremoniously deleted.

? Spam will not be tolerated in any form.

? Topics will be moved/locked/deleted without warning at the forum staff's discretion.

? Trades are subject to the same rules as the For Sale threads. If you have a trade post it in the Classifieds section(s) using the For Sale template.

Revision date: July 3rd, 2015
Discussion Thread

Last edited by BenFenner on 2018-08-05 at 14-44-19.

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2015-08-03 19:05:34

#370

canx2k

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I've had a look through the rules, and I don't see it there, so I'd like to suggest no 'best priced shipped to xyz' - seems to me it is redundant - most sellers will restate their price or simply say 'make an offer'.

Basically, make an offer, then haggle from there. Thoughts?

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