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Thread: Tubular front control arms

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Posts: 201-210 of 363
2010-07-21 17:26:28
#201
Why would you need more caster, then a set of caster plates give? Making these caster adjustable would have meant making the joint between the front frame and arm a heim joint. Heim joints are not the best thing to use in that area, not saying that they cant be put there, I just dont like them there.

Mark
2010-07-21 17:49:12
#202
Mark

I think he was looking for more caster built in (non-adjustable). I think you made the right decision. It is easy enough to adjust caster with an adjustable plate to get whatever customer wants. Making the arm adjustable for caster with a heim joint would be costly and huge compromise.
2010-07-21 19:02:55
#203
I think everyone wants to know if the whiteline bushing that gives more caster will fit these control arms. Here is a link to the bushings https://www.upscaleautomotive.com/p-43604-whiteline-front-control-arm-caster-adjustment-kit-for-91-99-nissan-sentra.aspx.
2010-07-21 20:18:07
#204
mark can probably repnoodleuce those whiteline caster bushing and sell along with the kit..
2010-07-21 21:42:39
#205
Some of us already have the bushings and want to know if they can be used with these arms. I am honestly having a hard time seeing why this question is so hard to answer: Can these control arms be used with stronger stock-like sized (ES for example) or modified aftermarket (Whiteline for example) rear control arm bushings or do we have to pay more and use the ones provided? As eluded to a few times since my last post, this question is mainly posed because many of us like the caster gains from the Whiteline bushings and I noticed that in the pictures you had a set of rear bushings in it indicating that they are included. I was asking if there was an option not to get them so we can use our stock or aftermarket ones.
2010-07-22 01:46:36
#206
WE can do them instead of our bushings if you like, or we can cut the price by $25 if you do not need them.

Mark
2010-07-22 04:31:42
#207
I like the revised design! Is the end of the control arm (that goes in to the bushing) the same diameter as the factory control arm?

I think they will be plenty strong, only thing I might add would be gusset's on either side of the area that holds the through bushing.

It also appears that these control arms will give you more room between the sway bar mount and the end of the sway bar. This is important for people using a bump steer kit and the progress adjustable front sway bar.
2010-07-25 19:02:53
#208
Damn. My ignorance catching up with me.

Let me see if I can actually discern all the advantages of these OEM Tubular Front Control Arms......
Originally Posted by Overkill
No cookie hop, Lighter, Ball joint location. And the fact they look cool,lol.

OK.

Originally Posted by sanmarinoblue
I've needed a pair for years. And if you make them where the actually fix our geometry with a lowered car that would be 100%

Originally Posted by NissanGuy
^^^x2, when we lower our fronts its a matter of time before the ball joint goes to ****

Fix the issue with the ball-joint dying (due to bad geometry) on lowered vehicles.

Originally Posted by bluebomber
These will have adjustment in the camber via heim joints thus pnoodleucing a different ball joint location. I remember looking at the arms on my B14 when it was on Eibachs and it looked like the balljoint needed to be moved in towards the middle of the car by an inch or two.

Basically you would thread in or out the arms to account for how low you are sitting. A set of our top mounted camber plates in conjunction and you would never have an issue.

To optimize the design we would need measurements taken to account for the rake angle of the control arm and the oem length. From this we can use trig to determine the correct length for a flat arm when lowered. The heim joints will be used for the slight variations in ride heights due to different springs. The heim joints will also help if you dont have camber plates installed though I would not recommend it.

Originally Posted by sanmarinoblue
Faster someone gets them a pair in, the faster we can finally stop replaceing ball joints!

Happy ball joints.

Originally Posted by Overkill
Yes, bolt in. Might need to get an alignment after, unless you are good at dialing in your suspension.

Bolt on part. My mechanic will be happy. No modifications necessary on his end.

Originally Posted by Viperoni
Basically something that is stronger and lighter than stock, puts the ball joint in a better location is something that I'd be interested in..

Stronger, lighter, better ball joint location for reliability.

Originally Posted by jere
Less unsprung weight less cookie hop.

Easy enough to understand.

Originally Posted by Overkill
I like that design above. We will install these. This way they can be moved in and out and up and down for the needed position of each persons drop. I will see if I can make something similar like this today

Adjustable to any reasonable "drop" on the vehicle.

Originally Posted by Overkill
Lets just say the NX is handling much better now

That I understand 100%.

Originally Posted by Overkill
You can see our design will allow the balljoint to be moved in and out and also up and down. All bushings are delrin as well.

Truly a needed part for this car at the very least.

OK.

Originally Posted by Overkill
You can get about 5 degrees of negative camber out of these. There are no spacers on this right now as this was just a trial run. YOu will get spacers to raise or lower the ball joint.

Not only will this 1) solve the problem with the ball joint location but 2) its 10lbs of unsprung weight lost from the car. That alone is a far advantage over factory.

Spoken in plain English.

Originally Posted by Overkill
Th arms will be $435. Yes they will include everything needed to install. The bushings are made of delrin.

Complete bolt-in.

Originally Posted by Overkill
We took on this project to better the outcome of the car and to fix a MAJOR problem.

The ball-joint location, correct?

Originally Posted by Overkill
Here you can see the true advantage of our arm. Perfect 90 degree angle.

Also notice that its adjustable too. So if you have coilovers you can adjusts accordingly.

Ie...that ball-joint kept flat (horizontal), no deflection caused by the lowering (?) which stresses that ball joint (?).

Originally Posted by happynole
I just drove on these and all I can say is WOW!!

Car is much more responsive and dare I say it "Crisp" on turn in. I actually scared Mark with my 90 degree turn ins at full throttle. It's on the lift now for inspection and all is well.

Get these now while you can!!

Thank you Joe. That assessment I can fully relate to and understand.

Originally Posted by happynole
Some people may have upgraded to a whiteline rear bushing (the big "U" shaped one) already and may wish to keep that. Unlike my worn out factory rear bushings which needed to be retired.

FYI: Whiteline or Superpro (one made them for the other company, forget which way that goes) are the same caster bushings.

Can't believe you did not already have the caster bushings. Mike K loves them on the track or street, which was enough for me and my very limited mechanical chops.

Originally Posted by nismosigma
I think everyone wants to know if the whiteline bushing that gives more caster will fit these control arms. Here is a link to the bushings https://www.upscaleautomotive.com/p-43604-whiteline-front-control-arm-caster-adjustment-kit-for-91-99-nissan-sentra.aspx.

Originally Posted by zer099
Some of us already have the bushings and want to know if they can be used with these arms.

Can these control arms be used with stronger stock-like sized (ES for example) or modified aftermarket (Whiteline for example) rear control arm bushings or do we have to pay more and use the ones provided? As eluded to a few times since my last post, this question is mainly posed because many of us like the caster gains from the Whiteline bushings and I noticed that in the pictures you had a set of rear bushings in it indicating that they are included. I was asking if there was an option not to get them so we can use our stock or aftermarket ones.

I also already have the Superpro (Whiteline) caster bushings.

Pretty sure, based on what Mike K states, that I love what the caster bushings do.

Originally Posted by wes
It also appears that these control arms will give you more room between the sway bar mount and the end of the sway bar. This is important for people using a bump steer kit and the progress adjustable front sway bar.

Nice to know.


________________________________________________________

In summary.....


Positive Attributes/Benefits of O.E.M. Tubular Front Control Arms:

1) Less cookie hop.

2) Lighter is better on unsprung weight.

3) Fixes the suspension geometry issues on lowered vehicles. In particular that (CV? Wet noodle?) ball joint.

4) Stronger than Nissans unit, and stronger is nearly always better.

5) Adjustable to account for different suspension drops.

6) Makes your car more responsive and crisp on turn in. Makes Joe say "wow".

7) Will work with Nissan factory, O.E.M. provided delrin, Whiteline or Superpro caster bushings. You can save a couple bucks if you already have the Whiteline or Superpro units.

8) These control arms will give you more room between the sway bar mount and the end of the sway bar. This is important for people using a bump steer kit and the progress adjustable front sway bar. I'll take Wes's word for it, any day.

9) Complete bolt-on installation, with all fasteners included.

10) They look cool.

________________________________

I *think* that makes it easier to understand for folks with limited mechanical skills. Like me.

Did I cover all the basic points? Anything I am missing? Please correct anything I may have missed on my (mechanically ignorant) list of attributes above that I gleaned from fourteen (14) freakin' pages of intense study. My head hurts.....

Finally, four (4) simple questions to make sure.....

A) These would be superior to the Nissan control arm as I outlined above, on both a daily-driver and/or track vehicle, correct?

B) Would this allow folks to go lower than 1.5" (the current "standard" on the max-drop that is acceptable with our vehicles) on their drop, and still not fuxor their suspension geometry? Or would other suspension issues arise (like horrendous bump steer) to still prevent someone from lowering the vehicle over 1.5"?

C) Did Eggman make a mistake on mentioning this Tubular Front Control Arm (positively) affecting bump-steer?
Originally Posted by Cozzm0_AU
Originally Posted by Eggman
Yes...bye-bye bumpsteer!
It does look like it would contact that bolt near the pivot when compressed,though.
Maybe its the angle of the pic?

How is this going to effect bump steer compared to the bump steer kit though? The bump steer kit moves the tie noodle under the knuckle mount, which is a significant amount more than the spacers on the lower balljoint shown on the control arm.

Eggman edited out the "bumpsteer comment" from his original post. No one addressed Cozzm0_AU's question. Can someone please clear this up?

D)
Originally Posted by Wes
This is important for people using a bump steer kit and the progress adjustable front sway bar

Therefore, this unit would work independently of, and/or in conjunction with, Bolt-In-Bars (Octotat) bumpsteer elimination kits with no issues? (Link: http://www.sr20-forum.com/bolt-bars/30241-bumpsteer-kit.html).

Thanks,

Shawn B
2010-07-25 23:14:16
#209
lol u must have alot of time to spare in your life
2010-07-26 00:32:40
#210
Originally Posted by s132nr
lol u must have alot of time to spare in your life

There's other possibilities.

I learned about what a tubular front control arm is, and does, in this thread. I figure my time was well spent on educating myself before asking questions.

I wanted to know all the benefits of this pnoodleuct. While reading I made a summary for anyone else like me that would like a Readers Digest version (14-freakin'-pages...). And specifically, I wanted to know why an enthusiast would buy this pnoodleuct and for what type of driving.

Until I went through that process, I did not know what this pnoodleuct was, what it did, and more importantly if I personally wanted to buy this pnoodleuct.

I can also use all the information in this thread, in a separate thread of mine. Premeditated bonus.
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