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Thread: Regrounding the O2 Sensor

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Posts: 151-160 of 472
2008-06-12 04:51:53
#151
Originally Posted by DC
Hey guys.. Thanks for starting this new thread as we were jacking the other headlamp wire thread.

My objective is to gain better O2 sensor operation. My theory is that the ground on the Stainless Steel aftermarket header is not providing the necessary amount of grounding needed for the O2 signal to the ECU. Also that the signal to the ECU is weak and causing issues with gas mileage, bogging at low rpms and possible other idle issue. But, I can be completely wrong here!! But doing some test, I will attempt to verify if my theory is true or a contributing factor to some of these problems.

O2 sensor wires
I have purchased two (2) types O2 sensors: the OEM/Bosch thimble type sensor and the NGK planar type sensor. Both are constructed with 3 wires. Bosch also makes a 4-wire O2 sensor but not for the SR20DE motor (not sure of other motors).

The wire colors are different and Black does not mean Ground:

OEM 3-wire (Bosch Thimble type):
1. Black wire for the signal
2. Two (2) white wires for the heater.
3. No signal ground wire (ground is achieved through the sensor body where it threads into the exhaust system).

NGK 3-wire (planar type with square tip):
http://www.ngk.com/more_info.asp?AAIA=1211735&pid=4014
1. Blue wire for the signal
2. Two (2) Black wires for the heater.
3. No signal ground wire (ground is achieved through the sensor body where it threads into the exhaust system).

Bosch 4-wire (Bosch Thimble type):
1. Black wire for the signal
2. Gray wire for signal ground
3. Two (2) white wires for the heater.

Note: As you can see above - Not all O2 sensor wires are colored the same. You must determine the correct wires by reading the manufacturer documentation.

So now that we know that the Black wires ARE NOT ground in all the above cases, we can now see the problem. The 3-wire O2 sensor depends on external sources for grounding.

The 4-wire O2 sensor would be a great solution due to its signal ground wire. We could simply wire it to a good grounding position and work is done. I will contact tech support at Bosch to find out the possiblities of using a 4-wire sensor on the SR20 engine. Then, we could just replace our 3wire connector with a 4-wire connector and run a new wire from the signal ground pin to a good ground source.. Will keep you updated with an answer (if they respond).

But for now, we are stuck with the 3-wire connector. So, somehow we must improve the header ground properties.

Yesterday, I purchased a Napa grounding strap. I have began promising test by attaching the grounding straps at the header/downpipe joint using the connection bolts. I also tested the straps using the Cat bolts. Tonight, Im going to cut the strap and test connections at both locations.

I will post my results here..
.




http://www.ngk.com/more_info.asp?AAIA=1211735&pid=4014

^So what's the word on the plug and play style?
2008-06-12 04:57:44
#152
Originally Posted by Vadim
Thanks for the update SkySHepherd!

Interesting another OBDI car haha . Now is that sensor the Plano type or thumble?

Plano:


Thumble:


^So either one with do by reading post #147?
2008-06-12 19:05:46
#153
Originally Posted by MR-4Door-SR20DE
http://www.ngk.com/more_info.asp?AAIA=1211735&pid=4014

^So what's the word on the plug and play style?


Plug & Play is the Bosch 4-wire O2 Universal sensor - 15727 and wiring the ground wire to the intake mani.

Your link is for the 3-wire sensor and is also a tight fit if you have the SSAC headers... (ask me how I know). Also, we have proved that the 3-wire will not have a good ground with the Stainless Steel header.

The 4-wire sensor is your best bet (plano or thumble). Using the discount code thread for RockAuto, its like $53. All Universal O2s require wiring, but you must do some wiring anyway to ground the 4-wire O2 sensor. So, NO! Its not plug & play. Its wire & play..
Instructions are easy and it will only take u about 1/2 hour to do (unless u are slow, hehe).

Update:
Either one will do: Plano or Thumble types..
Most of the new 4-wire O2 sensors are Plano. Older stock will be Thumble.
Plano sensors are actually much faster to heatup and gives a stronger signal.
2008-06-12 20:05:31
#154
Originally Posted by SkyShepherd
Plano Jane-o! I was a little leery, to be honest, as it replaced a thimble style, but I can't argue with success (so far, anyway). I will try to get a run in tomorrow with the laptop running conzult, and watch the A/F, output voltages and temps to verify. Standby for further...

Darrin


Question: Darrin do you have the Full Version of Conzult?? If you do, please send me a PM. I have some questions to ask about the software readings..
2008-06-12 20:23:59
#155
I highly suggest using the Plano styled O2 sensor.

For two reasons.
A.) Part # 15727 is easier to find in Plano flavor
B.) Improved technology, faster to heat up, sends more signals to ECU.

Only down side of a Plano O2 sensor is non OBDII people probably will not see a difference.
2008-06-13 18:02:48
#156
Will the 15727 work for the rear as well? I am throwing a rear O2 code so it would be best to replace it with the 4-wire than another 3-wire. I will also update the front to a 4-wire while i am at it.
2008-06-13 19:03:48
#157
Originally Posted by DC
Plug & Play is the Bosch 4-wire O2 Universal sensor - 15727 and wiring the ground wire to the intake mani.

Your link is for the 3-wire sensor and is also a tight fit if you have the SSAC headers... (ask me how I know). Also, we have proved that the 3-wire will not have a good ground with the Stainless Steel header.

The 4-wire sensor is your best bet (plano or thumble). Using the discount code thread for RockAuto, its like $53. All Universal O2s require wiring, but you must do some wiring anyway to ground the 4-wire O2 sensor. So, NO! Its not plug & play. Its wire & play..
Instructions are easy and it will only take u about 1/2 hour to do (unless u are slow, hehe).

Update:
Either one will do: Plano or Thumble types..
Most of the new 4-wire O2 sensors are Plano. Older stock will be Thumble.
Plano sensors are actually much faster to heatup and gives a stronger signal.



Thanks DC. I'll give you a call lata bru..........I need to ask you how you like the :HOW TO: link I sent you on the old forum anyway. Did you get you fuel filter (aka "Thing Thing") changed?
2008-06-13 19:05:14
#158
The rear O2 is only used to check that the cat is good rather than decide the fuel mix, it shouldnt make as much difference, just go for the cheaper option on the rear sensor
2008-06-13 20:25:26
#159
Originally Posted by squirlz
Will the 15727 work for the rear as well? I am throwing a rear O2 code so it would be best to replace it with the 4-wire than another 3-wire. I will also update the front to a 4-wire while i am at it.


15727 is the Universal replacement for 98-99 200sx/Sentra's as per Bosch's website.

Now older then 98 had the skinny O2 sensor, so I dunno if that would fit. And dunno if the wiring would be similar or not.

Originally Posted by MR-4Door-SR20DE
Thanks DC. I'll give you a call lata bru..........I need to ask you how you like the :HOW TO: link I sent you on the old forum anyway. Did you get you fuel filter (aka "Thing Thing") changed?


Haha that was a crazy, How to, I couldn't help my self either...

Originally Posted by UK-SRi
The rear O2 is only used to check that the cat is good rather than decide the fuel mix, it shouldnt make as much difference, just go for the cheaper option on the rear sensor


That is true for the most part...

Here is a direct quote from the FSM

Originally Posted by 99

The rear heated oxygen sensor (Rear HO2S), after three way catalyst, monitors the oxygen level in the exhaust gas.
Even if switching characteristics of the front heated oxygen sensor are shifted, the air fuel ratio is controlled to stoichiometric, by the signal from the rear heated oxygen sensor.
This sensor is made of ceramic zirconia. The zirconia generates voltage from approximately 1V in richer conditions to 0V in leaner conditions.
Under normal conditions the rear heated oxygen sensor is not used for engine control operation.
2008-06-13 21:35:19
#160
Great info, so if the front is working correctly then the rear does nothing. I will try to fake out the rear one then and upgrade the front to the 4 wire. I can always add the rear at a later time.

Thanks for the info guys.
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