Thread: AC Refrigerant Alternatives

For those running R12 systems, I use a product called Freeze 12 which is a direct replacement for R12 systems, no flushing and retrofitting systems required, it works great and is basicly hassle free.

Freeze 12 Freon Replacement: EPA Approved!

I can only get it at Napa auto stores here in my city. I buy the line kit to fill them from Autozone. Ive used this product more times than i can count for customer cars and never had issues with them returning saying something is wrong.

Interesting. Tomorrow I'll see if I can dig up some less biased information about it (ie, not from their own website). Never heard of it before.

oh and not to mention Freeze 12 at Napa is less than $7/14oz can. Cant beat that.

Freeze 12 is not bad, I hear it's not as good as R12 it self though. Freeze 12 is mostly R134a HCFC-142b.



If I install HC refrigerant, it seems to be frowned upon anyway .

Well here is how it works, we first deplete the Ozone layer, then we induce global warming to cover up the holes and we are all set.

I don't see why it is so big of an issue to have compressors and use CO2. And the reason I say this is because we have direct-injection vehicles on the road running over 1000psi in the fuel rail and are leak free. How is it harder to make it work for a CO2 regrigerant.

You guys make it sound harder than it actually is

I just replaced the r12 compressor on my b13. I used the one from my 94 which ran r134. Everything looked exactly the same except the fittings for filling it. They both already had pag oil in them. It freezes me out after about 15 mins on the highway. I've never driven a sentra that had outstanding a/c, last time I was working at nissan they still had b15s. If it was over a hundred outside you had to run the car with od off to stay cool on the highway. This was on brand new cars I was doing pre delivery inspections on.

It's not that it's hard, with today's technology anything is possible. The problem is it's not efficient in two ways. It doesn't cool as well as R-134a even on a very hot day, second is having a compressor have to get those PSI's would cause a lot of load on the engine. Thus performance and gas mileage would go down.

This is another reason why I'm wanting to try out ES-12a. If using R-152a gave 20% efficiency at highway speeds, ES-12a should be similar.

Other then that CO2 would be cool, I could come up with my paintball gun and recharge my AC



Agreed, never had an ice cold sentra. Maybe the ES-12a will fix that .

I have worked in a shop for 33 years and our main specialty is A/C. I agree with most of the comments but a few comments maybe misleading. A refrigerant that is "EPA Approved" only means it is considered not be hazardous to consumers and has nothing to do with how well it will work as a refrigerant. One thing was omitted about R12, it's not flammable but will burn and this produces toxic phosgene gas. Their is no such thing as a "direct replacement" refrigerant. Any vehicle charged with a refrigerant other than it was designed for must have unique fittings for that refrigerant. Flammable refrigerants should not be used with the systems we currently use. We demonstrated in 1996 how HC12a (mixture of propane and butane) in a car with a 2 pound charge and a small leak in the cabin can turn into a time bomb and then soon turns into a fireball.

I was trying to find more information about R12 and burning dangers.

I'm not sure where it was mentioned that EPA monitors the performance of the refrigerants. It might have been mentioned that it doesn't perform well in the real world, but that's a different story .

Do you have any links or articles about that test?

Also can you explain why the flammable R-152a would be allowed (with additional safety measures to the current systems). Why wouldn't HC-12a be allowed with the same safety measures?

Here is another article that talks about R-152a, it's fairly old but seems to be on par.

The bit from the article I posted also refers to that testing. They mentioned difficulty in igniting the refrigerant in the engine bay even after it was released. In a well designed system I don't see how there would be any issues. But I don't see it becoming available as a drop in to systems meant for R-134a.