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Thread: OEM bearings vs ACL

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Posts: 21-30 of 41
2011-09-06 21:53:53
#21
Originally Posted by Doctor

Thanks again. Also just read through the sticky on bearing sizes. Good info between these two threads.


^ x2.

This thread had some really good info. I would like to see it get stickied. The other sticky about choosing bearings is....a) in the VVL section and....b) it is more about how to choose the right bearing size. Some of the info talked about in that thread is covered here but this thread has a different tone. More reviews and personal experiences here and also touching on coated vs. non-coated.

Maybe some more members could chime in on what bearings they have used, brand, size, coated vs. non-coated etc; and their experiences with them and in what engine they put them in. This thread could be a great sticky in the General SR20 section, maybe? I think so!

Anybody else willing to contribute to this already informative thread with personal experiences with bearings, in order to make it a sticky that got stucked?
2011-09-07 00:41:04
#22
if you have a GTiR or VE block it would be stupid not to get the 5 holed ones. This provides 360 degree oiling to the bearing which gives a superior advantage to the operation of the bearings. Before GTiR and VE were as easily available as they are now, us old schoolers used to have DE blocks modded to have those holes drilled in from the respective oil galleys
2011-09-07 00:47:55
#23
Originally Posted by BenFenner
I never understood how ACL bearings could go with "one size fits all" when the OEM bearings have the different grades. Is ACL just happily accepting the big swings in tolerances? That never sat well with me.

The OEM bearings for our engines are still lead. They haven't changed the design to aluminum just because the newer engines use aluminum.


The last set of Clevite 77 mains I got were aluminum.
2011-09-07 00:54:26
#24
Originally Posted by jRod
if you have a GTiR or VE block it would be stupid not to get the 5 holed ones. This provides 360 degree oiling to the bearing which gives a superior advantage to the operation of the bearings. Before GTiR and VE were as easily available as they are now, us old schoolers used to have DE blocks modded to have those holes drilled in from the respective oil galleys


I don't think it does 360 full degrees, but it does feed more oil for longer. The stock VE bearings I have here have 3 holes, but the ACL have 5. I don't really see how necessary it is to have quite that many holes, but I could see it as a slight benefit. Perhaps on a race engine. For street use, I don't feel it is absolutely necessary. And neither do the OEM engineers, because you don't see them that often.

It is worth noting that a lot of higher revving engines utilize more than 1 hole. Most have 3 hole designs.
2011-09-07 02:31:29
#25
the stock GTiR has 5 holes and does 360* oiling...do some searches on the oldest of threads you can find and you will see what Im talking about...some of Kojimas old articles, etc...

Seeing that the GTiR is the highest output OEM variant of the SR20, I'll trust those engineers

so much of the good tech info of the past gets clouded with all of the VE bandwagoning.

This guys is rebuilding a VE, granted, so he will be fine either way.
2011-09-07 05:37:43
#26
Originally Posted by jRod
the stock GTiR has 5 holes and does 360* oiling...do some searches on the oldest of threads you can find and you will see what Im talking about...some of Kojimas old articles, etc...

Seeing that the GTiR is the highest output OEM variant of the SR20, I'll trust those engineers

so much of the good tech info of the past gets clouded with all of the VE bandwagoning.

This guys is rebuilding a VE, granted, so he will be fine either way.


The GTiR isn't the highest output OEM SR. And what about ITBs? They used those as well, but they are hardly necessary. I use the GTiR mains and the GTiR rod bearings as well. Like I said, they aren't necessary. Good addition? Sure, but I wouldn't stress over it.
2011-09-07 17:25:55
#27
really? which is? Let me guess the VE-T? yes 50 more factory-claimed hp...all hail the VE how did the world ever get along without them LMAO

Before that, it was the GTiR. whatever....


I dont belive I said anywhere or at any point that someone should "stress" over it...

But it if you have the grooves in your block, its silly not to take advantage of them.
2011-09-07 18:03:26
#28
Originally Posted by jRod
I have to respectfully disagree with your outlook on coatings. The purpose of coatings is to increase longevity by eliminating metallurgical stress/strain and effects created from thermal cycling (caused by adverse gradients created in operation and from random exposure to heated lubircants, etc..)

In no way, shape, or form should anybody think that a coating will increase the hardness or any other metallurgical property of the metals in a bearing (and I dont think you were suggesting that at all). But what you were suggesting is that in the event of some kind of FOD or oiling anomoly the coatings will catastrophically fail as a whole and create more FOD. Engine component coatings are damn near rock hard and their bonds are stronger than the average metallurgical bond between layers of dissimilar metals. They not laminar in structure, like say a composite, so they wont "peel" or "rip off" like paint or something like that...that seems to be the picture you are suggesting and I have to completely disagree from a materials engineering standpoint.

Is the situation possible that some kind of FOD strike can remove the coating significantly, YES...but not likely...has it happened before, have you possibly even seen it..sure...not doubting that, but if you have seen it multiple times and consider it a trend I can promise there is another problem causing that kind of destruction/degradation
When making a design/selection decision based on an anomaly that cannot be equally predicted for two separate candidates, one would just be playing the old horseshoes and handgrenades game....

My concern would be if you fear fod or imbalance conditions that are going to be "ripping off" coatings that are rock soild and well bonded...you either built that motor in a dirty ass room with piss-poor practice or you have other underlying preparation or contamination issues.

Its for this reason specifically that engines are flushed multiple times after machining, assembled in clean rooms and should receive oil changes/flushings excessively during the first several hours of operation...

If someone is anticipating so many problems with your oiling system then its just a ticking time bomb anyway. I would have to ask- are the oil galleys and block not being flushed after machining? Are old oil-related seals, hardware and components being re-used and not cleaned ultrasonically (oil coolers, lines, valvetrain, pumps, chains, guides, etc.)? All that can introduce havoc-reaking FOD, none of which is any bearings fault-nor should any bearing be designed to deal with that LOL

I will agree that in order to compare apples to apples we should compare a non-coated ACL to a non-coated OEM bearing....and I would again agree that the ACL bearings are superior.

With that said, if you are not building a high output motor then the extra money you will pay for the coatings (which does add up if you get the rod, main and thrust all coated) is not necessary. It wont hurt to have it, but you honestly wont notice the difference either.

To the OP, I say: considering the savings and availability, I think you should feel comfortable getting the ACL bearings.


I don't know you at all JRod but just from reading this post & some of your other posts I can tell you know your stuff and have been around the block a few times, lol. Listen to this man, he has some very good information in this post alone. I don't have anything else to add since you covered everything I know plus more in your posts and I have also been around awhile. Been doing this stuff for 10 years now and have learned what works and what doesn't work. I used to do it every day but now I am a service manager and tell others how to do it everyday. Just to give my opinion, the 5 hole bearings are the way to go if you can get them. For most situations they are not necessary. Most people can run oem bearings and be just fine but for the price, why not get the best money can buy if you are at the point of building an engine. For most turbo cars I have done I have never even had to open the block, therefore oem bearings can take a beating. I like to push the limits of a stock block since they will hold more than enough power for what most people use their cars for.
Drew
2011-09-07 22:55:26
#29
Originally Posted by jRod
really? which is? Let me guess the VE-T? yes 50 more factory-claimed hp...all hail the VE how did the world ever get along without them LMAO

Before that, it was the GTiR. whatever....


I dont belive I said anywhere or at any point that someone should "stress" over it...

But it if you have the grooves in your block, its silly not to take advantage of them.


???? You are very knowledgeable sir, just don't understand the chip....
2011-09-07 23:04:57
#30
he's got a grudge against ve's thats for sure lol
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