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Thread: Best Stock Oil Pump

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Posts: 1-7 of 7
2011-07-24 05:24:09
Best Stock Oil Pump
Yes, it's been talked about before but read on...

I know this has been talked about, a lot. I have read over the years many topics on this and it all ends the same: “the VE has the most powerful oil pump” but there are no numbers ever to back this, just people saying. Well, I finally gotten a hold of a FSM for the VE and VET and their numbers are lower than the GTi-R’s; so I ask the question once again with the request of actual proof not “because I said it is” proof. Who has ran a good GTi-R oil pump and switched over to a VE pump and seen higher pressures? According to a guy in Canada with a GTi-R he's measured the pump gears and the R's is the largest. I have a spare trashed R pump that I can measure the gear in and get some pictures up if someone would like to do the same with a VE's. That aside though...

According to the FSMs both idle around the same: 14ish PSI. The R’s FSM is older so it is doesn’t have the same ranges but FSM says 50-64ish at 3,200 RPMs where the VE and VET FSM says 42.7psi @ 2000rpms and 56.9 at 6000rpms.

I can confirm the R pressure as I run around 55psi at about 3200rpms on my R and it’s been rebuilt with ACL bearings and a 13 row oil cooler with 5w40 weight oil. Before the rebuild and oil cooler it was higher. At 4000rpms I see about 60psi. Point being according to the FSMs for the VE and VET when compared to the actual number (and FSM) for a GTi-R the GTi-R has the stronger pump.

So if some VE guys could chime in I would like to hear actual number.

As a note this came up because I’ve always been curious and I’m thinking of getting a new pump as I know my old one has scoring on it from when I slung a bearing on the engine plus I don’t like my idle pressure since the rebuild which is now 11~12psi which I presume is partially from the scoring on the pump gears and the new bearings that aren’t to factory specs.
2011-07-24 17:34:17
Really? No one?

Here is an example of the type of posts I have seen on this in the past. No proof, just "hey man, VE is better". Couldn't help but notice that the OP even said he was getting higher numbers with the R pump but people still told him the VE is better; though they could not prove or explain how or why.

Here's a comment that seems to have some amount of research done, but no one cared it appears.

It's also odd that after a quick interweb search it appears all the RWD guys are trying to swap on the R pump but not many try for the VE pump. They claim the R is the highest pressure pump.

And for the record here's the post that got me all thinking on this again. Because according to this poster he measured and the sort and the R is the stronger better pump.

So I'm starting to get the impression the GTi-R pump is the best oil pump and the claim for the VE was just a guess or assumption.
2011-07-24 17:46:01
One thing to remember is that the volume flow of the pump is determined by the volume capacity of the gear and housing. The pressure provided by the pump is determined by the compression ratio of the gear/housing and the setting for the pressure relief valve.

From what you're saying, it does stand to reason that the GTi-R pump has a bit higher volume capacity. Your FSM findings seem to indicate that the GTi-R pump is also higher pressure. That might be true. My only question then would be, why is it higher pressure than the VE pump? That doesn't seem to make sense when the VE needs the pressure for the valve actuators.

Your FSM data shows 42.7psi @ 2000rpm and 56.9 at 6000rpm for the VE pump. The reason the VE pump doesn't have much higher pressure at 6k rpm could be due to the cam switching valves being activated. And if you put a GTi-R pump in there, maybe you'd get less pressure?
2011-07-24 17:49:41
When I talked to Greg about this the GTIR and VE oil pumps are almost identical when it comes to capabilities. The GTIR has less pressure than the VE but flows a slightly higher volume. The VE has higher pressures but not quite the volume. Both are great pumps and significant upgrades over a stock de/det pump.

With my VE I see about 30-35psi fully warmed up operating psi, by 4000 rpm im seeing about 80-90psi and holding that all the way throughout my rev band.

Cold pressures, about 55-60psi idling at 1500, over 100psi by 3500 rpm and holding that throughout.

Again both have their advantages but in all honesty it really depends on your setup. If you have a larger oil system capacity and oil cooler your best bet would probably be a gtir oil pump. For a stock system a VE would be better. Higher pressures are more important in that case. Higher oil pressures provides that extra security that oil is gonna get to where it needs to go quickly and keep a steady high flow. From what ive read on honda-tech and it makes perfect sense as well. Higher oil pressures also help keep the bearings from touching the crank surface causing damage. Again makes perfect sense and no doubt in my mind that its true.
2011-07-24 18:08:43
Thank you gentalmen; finally some more solid facts then just "'cause I said so" along with some running numbers.
2011-07-24 18:14:27
That was also with my VE oil pump on a ve block with a de head. So no vvl but my buddies 200sx with a ve in it runs right about the same pressures so its not just because i dont have the vvl that they are higher. You have to remember the fsm's numbers arent true running numbers. Those are the ranges in what your looking for when testing for oiling problems. Any less than those number is a sign the pump or engine bearings are worn. To have higher numbers is perfectly fine.
2011-07-24 19:02:05
I would like to see a VE FSM where can these be found?

/hi jack
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