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Thread: My timing issues...

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2010-08-08 17:31:25
My timing issues...
This began here, http://www.sr20-forum.com/vvl/34311-super-retard-dizzy-get-normal-timing-2.html

and I did not want to crap up lynch's thread anymore and I do not have a VVL so here we go.

I changed my cams on Memorial Day. I did not have timing issues then. I re checked my timing after we finished the cams and it was giving me the correct value with the correct physical position of the distributor on the car. Everything was great. I could get into timing mode without using an sort of Consult port cable. I used the FSM way and it always worked.

Around the time I got a new JWT ECU, my timing is now off. My dizzy is advanced super far to read my timing as 15*. Pics below.

With the distributor set here, the timing will read 15* when I lock into timing mode using something through Consult.

When I try timing mode without use of some Consult activated event, I cannot get the timing mode to lock anymore.

To recap what I have done and know so far...
-I changed the coolant temperature sensor even though the old one was working.
-I know my cam install was correct. The wood block was never moved during the whole thing, both cam gears were put back together in sync with the timing chain. AND, to top that off, I checked my timing after the cam install and it displayed the proper value and I had ZERO problems getting into timing mode.
-I thought maybe it was a JWT related thing, it is not. I went back and used my stock SER ecu and it did the same thing. So, I brought out my old G20 ecu and that does the same thing. At least this is constant and reinforces the fact that this is probably mechanical.

Now, a few weeks after I did the cam install, something messed up somewhere.

I have a valve cover gasket set on order and I am waiting for that to come in before I do anything.

Ultimately, I just want to get back to 15* timing, as per specs on the JWT ECU call for.
2010-08-09 16:05:37
Only crickets! Yikes.
2010-08-09 16:17:32
did you disconnect TPS ?
2010-08-09 16:21:16
Originally Posted by tomaz1684
did you disconnected TPS ?

Haha yes.

I tried both methods in the FSM and did them to a T.
2010-08-09 17:13:12
Don't worry about getting it into timing mode the manual way if you can do it through consult. It probably has something to do with your mechanical timing being off, which I know it is. You need to fix that first. Get a pic of a cut away of our engine with cam gears. You know your timing is messed up since your dizzy is all the way forward and the dizzy is connected to the exhaust cam. since everything lines up up top, you are off on the crank. You need to keep the cam gear links the same distance apart and since you know you need to rotate the dist towards the firewall, so you need to move each cam gear towards the firewall one link. Do not use the block of wood, thats what I used when it happened to me. Remove the tensioner and compress it in a bucket of oil. Don't worry about why it happened, my theory has to do with the block of wood. Do what I said and you will have no more issues and a car that runs right. I could tell in your video after cam install that your timing was retarded. Slow slow slow and then go on the tach and the sound of the engine. I had the same problem. I and you know the exhaust cam definatly has to rotate to move the dist. Since the links are correct, in order to do that you need to keep the up top the same amount of links apart so they both have to move towards the firewall. Install tensioner compressed and crank by hand a few times so you know everything you did was correct. take the plugs out it makes turning it over easier. rotate at least 5 times or so, I usually do 10. move the dist by hand a little more towards the middle and start the car. Put into timing mode and adjust accordingly. You will be so surprised how much your car runs better it's not even funny.
2010-08-10 05:09:15

You mention twice the relation of the wood to being the possible cause of this and also not to worry about why it happened. I simply, need to know why or how this happened.

I am going to do everything you have told me, whenever I get a free day to do so.

Another thing. The Consult unit I use is a dealership unit and I do not do my car work at that dealership any longer. So, I would need to set it in the middle, start it and run it for a few days until I could check with the Consult unit. Or I could just try to get into mechanical timing mode.

2010-08-10 17:29:40
After the timing is correct, as long as you can get a steady idle, you should be able to get into manual timing mode. The possible cause is that there is just enough room for the chain to skip a tooth on a de, on a ve, there is not because there is something that blocks it. They even tell you to use the wood ever since way back when for nissan timing chains in fsm's and all data. I never looked into why it happened after it was fixed on my car or any others because as long as it was running so much better, I simply did not care. I think ashton might be able to answer that because I know that he has done the same way of fixing it but don't know if he ever looked into why. I know it can happen because there is just enough room on a de for it to jump a tooth. It could have to do with when the wood was removed, the chain happened to be in the middle of the 2 links and it jumped when tension was applied. I do not know for sure.
2010-08-10 17:41:11
I just re-read your first post on this thread and I think you should get a new tensioner if after the cam install it did run right, went into timing mode and the dist was in the middle. How many miles on the engine? Maybe your tensioner or guides are worn or a combination of both and you happened to get lucky and only jump one tooth on the crank.??? Mine happened right after the cam install so I can't explain yours. Forget the block of wood on your car as long as it was at 15* with a timing light and not on the consult.
2010-08-10 18:58:03
I don’t know if this is going to help, but when I swapped the HG on my VE the dam chain moved by accident and ended up sagging at the bottom of the engine... The chain had gone down to the bottom and it did not allow the chain to come back up. So I didn’t have enough slack to install the cam gears; EVEN WITH THE TENSTIONER OUT!....."

After a couple of beers I got a crazy idea and it worked.

* So I took #1 spark plug out and stuck my antenna in it.
* Removed all the cam caps and Camshafts (to allow me to turn the crank by hand without bending valves)>>
* Then I turned the crank by hand while I had a buddy of mine pull the chain on the front side of the engine (the side nearest to the headlights) to keep it as tight as possible.. >>
* I got all the slack out of the bottom gear and kept turning it until my antenna was at its highest point. (TDC)>>
* I carefully installed the cams and caps. >>
* followed by the cam gears and chain. >>
· Ohh and a new Tensioner.>>
· I counted 20 links NOT COUNTING THE OUTER ONES!!>
· Then I made sure my dist was in the middle and pointing at #1 cyl. Hole in the Dist cap..>>
· And it started right up.

So where Am I going with all of this???? My point is... If your chain is off by a tooth ( or in my case several teeth) you can fix it fast and wont take more than an hour. >>

Re-check your cam timing, either way it wont hurt to make sure.

Ps. If your timing is off even by one tooth you will notice a big ass flat spot, or your exhaust would turn cherry red and glow from the heat.
2010-08-10 19:06:38
Alex you have just made me not afraid to mess with the cam sprockets with the engine in the car (I used to be so scared the chain would go slack and I'd have to take the front cover off to fix it). So simple, but so clever.
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