Thread: What Do You THINK???

How is a SR better then a Bseries, 1jz, and 4g63?

SR's = reliable, torqey, responds great to mods, and fun.

B's = reliable, NOT torqey, doesn't respond to mods worth sh^t, and maybe fun...if you like getting mopped up by SRs xP

1jz's.......idk how you can compare a 6 cylinder to a 4 but idk much on these motors

4g63 = unreliable, makes great power if you spend a lot on it but, makes the motor a lot less reliable, for some reason the 4g63s in Evos are a lot reliable then the crap sold in eclipse's sold here, and fun if AWD.

Now for which SR is best? Well that's just a matter of opinion and what you like. I like NA motors so a VE would be my style. If you like turbo any of the DETs will do. I know ill probably get flamed for this but lol.......if I was to go the turbo route, I'd go DET instead of VET. Don't ask why I just do.

Hopes this helps some.

The biggest thing that makes the sr20 so great.... it that is a TURBO breed motor. From its start it was turbo'd. It has a stock bottom end that can handle over 500hp!!! The 4g63 is the same way. Throw boost at it all day no problem. (Yes i know about crank walk... dont forget our #3 cyl.)

Honda motors are **** for boost... but by far the best n/a out there.

There is a reason there is a great following for each motor... dont be the guy who thinks yours is the best and everyone else sucks!!!

yeah , as a résumé ,
--honda engines , as far as i know them are high compression effiency beasts but lack torque due to the usually low displacement
--nissan engines , most of them , cause i recall the sr16ve n1 to be very much of an high revving engines just likes honda's, have more torque due to the usual higher displacement.
--the sr20 engines also is tougher to handle a **** load of boost due to his internals and semi-very-closed block design compared to say the b20 which is a complete open block design

i feel most srdet motors are detuned and just tuning them up without getting out of stock application configurations can outpower ALOT of cars which is really nice

What experience do you have bro? I see you are going nuts on the post throwing opinions out there all over so I was wondering what your background is?

The reason the BB motor makes more power than the GTi-R is compression ratio, that is about it. But, GTi-R motor was built for reliability and constant abuse where the BB was made for daily driver cars.

Brent

i feel my expierence in the car scene expands somewhat farther than the average joe, ive worked very hard to get where i am, i am new to nissans but definitly not new to motor builds, be it naturally aspired motors (ive built them) be it boosted applications (ive built them too) i am famillure with both technical aspects and physical aspects of both configurations of motors.

at 14 i built my first Naturally aspired motor, it was at the performance shop where i spent alot of time observing builds and configurations. it was there too that i learned about porting cylinder heads and other forms of porting ie: manifolds,throttle bodies, ect, it was there i also had first hand expierence with porting cylinder heads and my skill just got better from there.

ive ported over 75 heads,over 100 throttle bodies and somewhere in the 45-60 intake manifold range. i started a out of home busniess with porting kinda like most. all of which were hondas (while i was into hondas). had a pretty high demand for my work in the honda scene, local and out of state. i did all my work by word of mouth, which i think travels faster than promotion for a business, esp when it comes to car scene, word of mouth is exactly how everything travels in this biz.

it was there in my ''porting busniess'' i learned that work and play almost never go together and porting was taking quiet some time out of my life getting this and that done on time, was pretty hard to keep up with the demand of the work i had to do and projects i wanted to complete.

it was my ''porting busniess'' that allowed me to fund all of my projects and allowed me to not have any kinda budget on my projects which let me expierence greater aspects of building motors (when no budget is there lol)

that is a vauge story of my expierences with the whole import scene. i try to expand my knowledge farther than i have even though i feel i have came pretty far as i have dabbled in both forced induction, boost,supercharger, and mild naturally aspired motors to majorly build naturally aspired motors.

though i feel its in boosted application that i have gained a great portion of my knowledge but i feel that you cant really know motors THAT great if you have ONLY built boosted applications, its in the naturally aspired motors is where you gain your knowledge on how to father better your boosted application builds.



you are right as far as far as the motors having different compression ratios, the gtir having 8:3:1 and the BB having 8:5:1 becuase of its combustion chamber shape. the gtir tho is running 10.6psi and the bb is running 7psi which gives the gtir a advantage of 3.6psi of boost

in my opinion the gti-r is the best you can get next to maybe a real vet. unfortunatley the gti-r is a little harder to adapt, so that makes the bb a little more sought after than the gti-r. yes the bluebird makes really good numbers when pushed to the limit and can stay that way beacuse of the almost bulletproof design when compared to other manufacturers. but the gti-r can break the point of where the bb has reached its limit.

the bb can wake up faster though. 3.6 lbs of boost is not that much difference. the gti-r has a larger back housing, lower compression ratio, and quad throttles...(which when are not maintained can be a nightmare). the gtir ultimatley makes more hp's. but from the line the bb can probably smoke the gti-r.

I have to slightly disagree with one or two points. The B-series motor is a great motor that DOES respond well to mods. They definetly don't have any torque to speak of, but the power delivery is very nice above about 5k rpms. They do take nicely to a wilder cam lobe on the high vtec side (only 2 stage). They also respond very well to tuning the timing of the cams. Whereas the SR motors (especially the non-vvl motors) merely change the rev-range of the peak power, the B-series motors will respond by actually increasing peak power when tuned properly. The VE motors that we have are almost identical in design of the variable cam timing and profile, with one very important difference. SR engines with VVL have a three-stage setup where intake cams and exhaust cams are switched over to the larger lobes at different times. B-series engines with VTEC have 2 stages: low, and high. Even the ones with switchover points on both cams, such as the F20C in the s2k, have one switchover point for both cams. There is only one solenoid that controls both cams. This gives a more linear torque delivery instead of the peaky powerband of the honda engines. The semi closed block design of the SR motors makes them respond more reliably to boost (as aforementioned). I'll reiterate, though, that the B-series motor is a great motor and I have a lot of respect for them.

The 4g63 is also a good motor that is well overbuilt. The motor itself is only slightly less reliable than the SR series motor, which is only slightly less reliable than the B-series motor. The worst of the three, but not bad by any means! I've had cars with all three motors in them and I will always come back to the SR simply because I love the design of it most of the three here. The 4g63 responds well to boost, as said above. However, it's not that expensive as people think to make the motor powerful. There was a guy on the old forum who had a 1st generation awd talon running 9.9" in the quarter mile and he hadn't spent any more than $5k on the whole project! That is an extreme case and I doubt many people will be able to recreate that result on the same budget (I think he had one or two spare parts laying around already) but inexpensive, fast cars are possible with these engines. Look at the EVO 9 FQR400. From the factory with a 3 year warranty and comparable in price to a shelby GT mustang (not the GT500) with 400 hp! Imagine what a decent tuner could do with this engine without the help of the factory.

All in all, I love the SR motor. My favorite is the SR16VE N1. It makes about 200hp out of a 1.6 all motor in factory trim. There isn't a honda out there that does that. The closest they had was the s2k when it first came out. It had a specific output of 120hp per liter (240hp, 2.0L). Still 5hp off the mark. That's efficiency.

BTW, the 1JZ is also a great motor, but it's not in the same league as the SR. The extra liter of displacement as well as the extra two cylinders pushing the crank in the same direction give it more advantage than anyone here would call fair. Over 600 HP is capable using the stock internals....reliably.

That's my 2 cents. BTW, I'm with ^^^. If you have axcess to sr20vet's, You have a market here for them. Great motors and UBER rare!!!

well the thing is the gtir stock is making 3.6psi of boost more than the BB motor.

so take a bb motor bump the psi to 10.6psi put a larger backhousing on it and i bet it makes more power than the gtir at the gtir's comfiguration.

talking about the motors in stock configuration i agree the gtir motor is better. but like take my motor for example, its a BB motor but the only thing that is stock on it is the head casting and block casting, otherwise everything else is aftermarket..trying to compare my motor to stock configured motors is hard becuase everything is upgraded and reconfigured for the better which makes it a full bown race motor in a sense.

my motor comparing numbers made 207whp 205wtq @ 8.5psi only reving to 6200rpm on a gt2871r .86 ar...that was on a mustang dyno so figure the numbers are really around 237whp and 235wtq