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Thread: Toyota FT-86 / Subaru BRZ: Japanese (not Siamese) Twins

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Posts: 101-110 of 593
2011-11-29 18:18:17
#101
Originally Posted by Vadim
NICE!!!! Now I'm interested



Is the vq25hr in the G25 sedan? I would prefer an inline 4 if it's going to be a 2.5L though.

Agreed on the bold part, I may not care for a toyoburu either, but if it gains traction then other manufacturers will keep up!



And get poor power and gas mileage? . I love the IS300 body, but engine/trans is a no no for me.


yes the vq25hr is in the g25. But it seems it was revised in other markets to get a nice bump in HP. I usually prefer an inline 4 but a small v6 that redlines at 7500rpms must be nice too.
2011-11-29 18:21:36
#102
I could guarantee you the Subaru trimmed BRZ will sell volumes. There's already a huge amount of interest from the Subaru community. Even though it's not FI, most don't seem to mind.
2011-11-29 18:30:36
#103
the fact that its a boxer motor turns me off.

id love to see a 250whp 2.5 4 banger, but id like it to be inline. others wise i dont know, it just sounds unatural to me.

weighing in a 2700lbs and only having a 250 whp doesnt seem like itll be a very quick car by anymeans.

a great platform most likely but out the gate performance, not so sure...

stratton.
2011-11-29 19:08:52
#104
Originally Posted by STRATTON
the fact that its a boxer motor turns me off.

id love to see a 250whp 2.5 4 banger, but id like it to be inline. others wise i dont know, it just sounds unatural to me.

weighing in a 2700lbs and only having a 250 whp doesnt seem like itll be a very quick car by anymeans.

a great platform most likely but out the gate performance, not so sure...

stratton.


Are you meaning to say that the exhaust note literally sounds un-natural? If so, you'll be surprised to know that the N/A variants of the Boxer motor come with EL headers so they don't have that boxer rumble most loathe.

I'm betting it'll be soon before they get some real-world metrics from the vehicle(s) in terms of road testing. Things like skid pad, etc. will all determine how well this car is built and how nimble it will perform on a roadcourse/autocross.

We all know you don't need a ton of power to drive the car properly. Most of you here that still own SE-R's or NX's can attest to their capability in the right hands, no matter if it's making a stock 140hp or 400whp.

I just keep thinking about how much fun this car is going to be compared to my Wagon that weighs at least ~500lbs more, and makes roughly the same power albeit more torque because of the turbo. Not to mention less drivetrain loss than my AWD platform.
2011-11-29 19:22:49
#105
Originally Posted by Cliff
Mini has a two seater?! Link'em sir.


Mini Coupé
2011-11-29 19:28:16
#106
Reading this article makes me like it even more. It is like someone finally listened to the enthusiasts - so I hope they sell a ton of them. Maybe then, others like Nissan will try to compete with something that doesn't cost $35-$40k.

Finally: TTAC Gets Its Hands On The FT86. And Its Chief Engineer | The Truth About Cars


Some excerpts:

Give the people what they want
“We visited with car enthusiasts in Japan, America and Europe. The feedback we received was almost always the same. They said there are a lot of sports cars with high horsepower that are very fast, but these are not the sports cars that they want to have. They want small compact cars that are controllable, that they can tune themselves. However, that kind of sports car is not on the market. Therefore, these sports car enthusiasts are forced to continue to use older cars from a long time ago, because there is no new alterative on the market.”

0-60 times are the focus of committees
“We also went to competitors and asked them: “Why do you focus on fast cars?” The response almost always was: ‘Actually, we really don’t want to develop these kinds of cars. But once we bring a plan to develop that car to our board, the first question the directors of the company would ask is: How much faster is that car compared to what the competition has? How many seconds faster around the Nürburgring? What about the acceleration? These questions always come up because numerical performance is the easiest to understand.

No computers.. back to basics
“To make the car customizable, we did away with computers to the highest extent possible. A lot of the cars on the market today are controlled by computers. People have the feeling that they are driven by the car instead of them driving the car. That makes for a boring experience. That is why we decided to go back to the basics of car making. With the low center of gravity, the driver now is in personal touch with the road again.”

Carving a new market segment
“We did know from the very beginning that it was going to be a sports car. I said, well, if it’s going to be a sports car, it has to go fast. We were looking at the Nissan GT-R, the Mitsubishi Evolution, those cars were in our heads at the original stage.

Then we thought: Should we make a car that is faster than the GT-R?

You know what we did then? We did a lot of research. We talked to owners, fanatics, real buyers of sports cars around the world. They told us: Speed isn’t everything. If it’s just an incredibly fast car, they don’t really want it. What they want is a sports car that is small, compact, light, and that handles just the way they want it to handle.”

The customers wanted more: They wanted a sports car for less. A Veyron makes for good copy and dreams. But it also causes can’t-have-it frustrations. Tada listened intently to his future customers:

“The super-super-super fast cars are only for the super-rich. Even most super-rich don’t want to buy them. The people I talked to were looking for something like the 80s kind of a sports car, echoes of an AE86. They wanted a stripped-down, basic sports car with the price more like that of a piece of sports equipment, not the price of a house. Those people wanted something that doesn’t exist.”

Recognizing tuners needs
“It is possible to soup-up sedans or hatchbacks to make them sporty. But what these people are after is a body that is already very low to the ground, very sleek, a body that they can then work on – if they want.”

Don't worry.. this is not a camry/corolla - New Design Process
“There is a Toyota standard for designing new cars. This standard was to a large extent ignored. Why did we do this? There are cars that are accepted by a lot of people. Practical cars that are easy to drive and that do not break easily. These are standard Toyota cars. The 86 is not a car like that. We had to change our design approach for this car. We may have to do this again for other cars.

This is a car designed by enthusiasts for enthusiasts.
It is impossible to develop a sports car that appeals to everybody. If you try to please everybody, the car would be half-baked for everybody, and not particularly good for anybody. This car is not developed by a committee, or by consensus.”


Cool anecdotes:
- CEO Akio Toyoda, a car enthusiast himself was an active Test Driver (pushing his engineering team) and convinced his board to approve building the 86 even though it's not sales number driven.

- Toyota's advertising department did not like it. :cool!:

- Lowest center of gravity of any production car.
2011-11-29 19:32:55
#107








2011-11-29 19:40:08
#108
That article is win! <3 it.
2011-11-29 19:40:46
#109
Originally Posted by Cliff
Are you meaning to say that the exhaust note literally sounds un-natural? If so, you'll be surprised to know that the N/A variants of the Boxer motor come with EL headers so they don't have that boxer rumble most loathe.

I'm betting it'll be soon before they get some real-world metrics from the vehicle(s) in terms of road testing. Things like skid pad, etc. will all determine how well this car is built and how nimble it will perform on a roadcourse/autocross.

We all know you don't need a ton of power to drive the car properly. Most of you here that still own SE-R's or NX's can attest to their capability in the right hands, no matter if it's making a stock 140hp or 400whp.

I just keep thinking about how much fun this car is going to be compared to my Wagon that weighs at least ~500lbs more, and makes roughly the same power albeit more torque because of the turbo. Not to mention less drivetrain loss than my AWD platform.


im not saying it "sounds unatural" im saying the thought of a high reving n/a boxer motor in a rwd car with out a turbo just doesnt sound right. if you get what im saying.

either way im sure itll be a cool car, and like you said only time will tell how well put together it is as far as performance goes.

stratton.
2011-11-29 19:44:36
#110
Originally Posted by nismo00
Reading this article makes me like it even more. It is like someone finally listened to the enthusiasts - so I hope they sell a ton of them. Maybe then, others like Nissan will try to compete with something that doesn't cost $35-$40k.

Finally: TTAC Gets Its Hands On The FT86. And Its Chief Engineer | The Truth About Cars


Some excerpts:

Give the people what they want
“We visited with car enthusiasts in Japan, America and Europe. The feedback we received was almost always the same. They said there are a lot of sports cars with high horsepower that are very fast, but these are not the sports cars that they want to have. They want small compact cars that are controllable, that they can tune themselves. However, that kind of sports car is not on the market. Therefore, these sports car enthusiasts are forced to continue to use older cars from a long time ago, because there is no new alterative on the market.”

0-60 times are the focus of committees
“We also went to competitors and asked them: “Why do you focus on fast cars?” The response almost always was: ‘Actually, we really don’t want to develop these kinds of cars. But once we bring a plan to develop that car to our board, the first question the directors of the company would ask is: How much faster is that car compared to what the competition has? How many seconds faster around the Nürburgring? What about the acceleration? These questions always come up because numerical performance is the easiest to understand.

No computers.. back to basics
“To make the car customizable, we did away with computers to the highest extent possible. A lot of the cars on the market today are controlled by computers. People have the feeling that they are driven by the car instead of them driving the car. That makes for a boring experience. That is why we decided to go back to the basics of car making. With the low center of gravity, the driver now is in personal touch with the road again.”

Carving a new market segment
“We did know from the very beginning that it was going to be a sports car. I said, well, if it’s going to be a sports car, it has to go fast. We were looking at the Nissan GT-R, the Mitsubishi Evolution, those cars were in our heads at the original stage.

Then we thought: Should we make a car that is faster than the GT-R?

You know what we did then? We did a lot of research. We talked to owners, fanatics, real buyers of sports cars around the world. They told us: Speed isn’t everything. If it’s just an incredibly fast car, they don’t really want it. What they want is a sports car that is small, compact, light, and that handles just the way they want it to handle.”

The customers wanted more: They wanted a sports car for less. A Veyron makes for good copy and dreams. But it also causes can’t-have-it frustrations. Tada listened intently to his future customers:

“The super-super-super fast cars are only for the super-rich. Even most super-rich don’t want to buy them. The people I talked to were looking for something like the 80s kind of a sports car, echoes of an AE86. They wanted a stripped-down, basic sports car with the price more like that of a piece of sports equipment, not the price of a house. Those people wanted something that doesn’t exist.”

Recognizing tuners needs
“It is possible to soup-up sedans or hatchbacks to make them sporty. But what these people are after is a body that is already very low to the ground, very sleek, a body that they can then work on – if they want.”

Don't worry.. this is not a camry/corolla - New Design Process
“There is a Toyota standard for designing new cars. This standard was to a large extent ignored. Why did we do this? There are cars that are accepted by a lot of people. Practical cars that are easy to drive and that do not break easily. These are standard Toyota cars. The 86 is not a car like that. We had to change our design approach for this car. We may have to do this again for other cars.

This is a car designed by enthusiasts for enthusiasts.
It is impossible to develop a sports car that appeals to everybody. If you try to please everybody, the car would be half-baked for everybody, and not particularly good for anybody. This car is not developed by a committee, or by consensus.”


Cool anecdotes:
- CEO Akio Toyoda, a car enthusiast himself was an active Test Driver (pushing his engineering team) and convinced his board to approve building the 86 even though it's not sales number driven.

- Toyota's advertising department did not like it. :cool!:

- Lowest center of gravity of any production car.


wow.

Originally Posted by nismo00










wow.

this car looks greatttttt.

stratton.
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