Thread: P11 Transmission Article

Holy old post batman!

Yeah, I've never been a BABK fan, even back then. Even with my SE-R (462whp) road racing, I've never been hard on brakes. I try not to use them much, as they're counterproductive to fast lap times.

Cheap and OEM is what I like.



I don't want to. If I do, I'll start tearing the car apart again.

Bump steer isn't too horrible at our ride height (links are still close to parallel to the LCAs). Camber gain is probably shit. I've already started fabbing some new LCAs, but may just mod some stockers. We'll see.

Rockwood ever gave the m30 dual piston setup a thought or is it prone to weight penalties?

Steve nice to see your still around.

Thanks for sharing.

I think there were issues finding proper racing compound pads for them.



Yep. Mainly lurk these days. Kids and real job have been killing most of my free time.

Im very well aware of who Rockwood is for one.

Second, read the new thread, not the old. The old thread was missing a lot of information.

On the p10 you dont have to cut any crossmember. You might have to notch the lip off the subframe/k-member but thats it.

Secondly on the clutch, no more drilling of the firewall and modifying the pedal. 4th gen altima pedal bolts right in with the slight notching of the ridge on the engine bay side of the firewall. Again the new thread i linked you to explains everything in specific detail.

Its no more of a bolt in affair than doing a proper p11 transmission with a hydraulic conversion. Which in my opinion is the best way to run one vs converting it to cable. Pedal feel and everything is so much better with the hydro.

Again please read through the new thread Rockwood. It will enlighten you a bit I guarantee it.

Lastly, Redline shockproof is shit oil anyways. Matter fact its the 3rd oil i used on the gearstack that only lasted again about a month before disentegrating 3rd gear. It doenst lubricate the gears properly due to its viscosity and small oiling passages in the b13 trans. The 85w140 was NIGHT and DAY difference between all the other oils. Ask anyone thats used it. I dont talk out my ass on this.

Yes we know the b13 trans is garbage but you can make it last a hell of a alot longer with something as simple as using the Valvoline oil. Again its proven. Ive converted many people on here to it and all of them absolutely love it. I think only one has broken a trans with it but it lasted a hell of a lot longer than the others did. Mine never broke with it and that was with 460whp daily on it and always tortured. There is no explaining how it lasted so long other than the gear oil swap.

Id still recommend running it in this new trans. Please give it a shot. If your using shockproof I highly recommend draining that crap. Not good for our transmissions and again like I mentioned before, using shockproof is old school information. We are talking something that was used back in the late 90's as a bandaid to the trans. Well now there's a cast so to speak with using a better heavy weight oil.

Oh and 51H shifts like shit on a stick? LMAO. Maybe an early one with syncro issues. 04+, Id say way smoother shift than even a b13/b14 trans. Positive feel, smooth engagement even under no lift shift situations, again something I personally have done and experienced.

Maybe your drive with a 6 speed was a different experience than mine but yeah I wouldn't say that it shifts like shit.

I read the exact thread you linked. The info was useful for helping me make a decision.



Which wrench do you use to notch the subframe?



More notching? I thought this was bolt on? Is there a notching bolt I can buy from a hardware store?



Pedal feel is fine with a cable. It's lighter than going with a hydro setup. It's also easier. There's no reservoir and fluid to worry about. I can also adjust the engagement point quite easily.

The best part about staying cable? Not spending money on an unnecessary mod. With the JWT clutch's lighter than stock effort, I highly doubt we'll ever break a cable unless we seriously neglect it.



I did. It said I needed to notch the subframe. It also said swapping in this transmission was going to mean spending thousands more on a pile of parts needed for the swap. No thanks.



This makes zero sense. Heavy shockproof is 75W90. Why would a lower viscosity oil have trouble flowing through oiling passages that 140w can?

It lasted you a month before you blew up 3rd. Mine has lasted with it for years, thousands of miles of almost 400lb-ft at the wheels. Oh yeah, and I road raced it: 60+ shifts into/out of third gear per session and WOT for 20-30 minutes straight. Worked fine for me. Anecdotal evidence is not gospel.



How many clutch drops at 90mph with the equivalent of a 100lb flywheel did you do? That's what hopping curbing in 3rd at WOT is, since you're not only spinning the flywheel and clutch cover, you're also spinning up the countershaft, diff, axles, brakes, wheels and tires. How many times have you either been flooring the car, or max braking, with almost no air entering the front of the car because you're feet away from the car in front of you, making the diff earn it's keep over a dozen corners in less than 2 minutes, for 40 minutes straight? Trying to stay with the 32V in a racecar was a bad move on my part. I didn't want to keep repeating it when fixing the 32V would cost almost as much as it did for me to buy this P11 trans.



I'm sorry, but I'm leery of a regular dinosaur oil trying to hold up to 300*F case temps, mega-shear, etc. Redline Shockproof has been proven with over a dozen road racing SE-Rs. It's still used by nearly every front-running SE-R out there.

BTW, it's ironic that Valvoline, which is an old-school dinosaur-based GL-5 gear oil and decidedly not friendly for synchro transmissions, is recommended because it's "new", but a true synthetic with advanced chemistry isn't because it's "old" and "bad for the transmission."

Either way, the reasons I cited for not using a 51H have still yet to be struck down:

1. Grinding, clearancing, etc, of stressed parts of the chassis is not bolt on.
2. The 51H swap, according to your thread, will cost almost $2500 MORE than our 70A swap.
3. The 51H is considerably heavier.
4. I hate HLSD for road racing.
5. Cable-shifters suck
6. I don't need a 0.630:1 gear, so why carry it around?

If you're drag racing on huge power, I agree the 51H is the better choice. However, for a T25 on STOCK BOOST it would've not only added unwanted weight to the nose of the car (the worst spot possible), it would've been unnecessary and stuck us with a subpar diff.

In the end, this article was about how to mod a 70A trans, and why we felt it was a better decision FOR US than the 51H.



Dude, you must be deluding yourself. How is a transmission that's shifted by a bunch of sloppy cables snaked around multiple bends actuated by a lever housed in a plastic case going to be better than solid linkage?

I'm not the only one that feels this way:

Dodge Neon vs. VW Jetta, Nissan Sentra, Subaru Impreza, Mazda Protegé Comparison Tests - Page 3 - Car and Driver

And synchros don't solve this, otherwise the 32V would shift the same, which it doesn't.





But yeah, thanks for half-reading my article, then shitting all over it I guess. Since I obviously need the biggest transmission that'll fit, and I need to be innovative or people will call me old school, I'm going to swap in a 4000 series Allison.

OK, I have no idea about all this trans vs trans stuff, but me and several of my friends have the stock boxes in our cars and we all have been running the valvoline since ashton brought it to my attention, now granted none of us road race so this might not be a fair comparison but all of our trans have been doing fine with either the 75/90 in the n/a guy's transmissions or 85/140 in the turbo transmissions. We all used to run redline and while we didnt have any specific problems, we have noticed that the trans feels more solid an shifts smoother while hot rodding around, while the redline would be getting a kind of sticky shifter feel. oh and we usually just used the mt90 so again this may not be a fair comparison.

What i do know is the valvoline is cheaper and seems to be doing a great job, so we've been really happy with it. and they do make a synthetic version thats not much more expensive.

I didnt shit on your article Steve. That wasnt the point. I simply pointed out that alot of the parts you guys choose to use and information you have is ancient. As for the shockproof I was under the assumption you were using the heavy shockproof which was equivelent to a 250w oil. If this is true then yes the Valvoline Durablend which is a synthetic oil would be better than that.

About it not withstanding temps? Are you kidding me? This oil is usually used in big rig and big heavy duty trucks that do 100's of thousands of miles, im sure it can handle our measly little road racing and drag racing. Again its proven man. Ask anyone. its not dinosaur oil. These are their all new formulas and so on. Again meant for high temp, high sheer points, and meant to stand up to abuse. Again numbers done lie. My car as well was making over 400ft lbs of torque to the wheels on pump gas. More closer to about 450-475wtq on 30psi of boost.

Again, great article Steve. Im not shitting on it at all. I respect all your guys' work. I just question some of the decisions. Again according to my thread the swap can be done on your P10 for roughly 2000-2500 easily. No question. Yes there is some notching involved. Who cares. Nothing that takes away strength of the vehicle. No more extensive of work than dissesembling and entire p11 trans all the way down to every single piece and part seperated for treatment. No harder than doing any of that.

As for cable transmissions being sloppy. If you have shitty motor mounts then yes it can and will feel very sloppy. With urethane mounts, its pretty solid. Yes the cables snake around but they are solid attached at both ends. No movement or play allowed. Again, just my experience and was sharing it with you. Not to shit on your article. I only didnt read the last page as I missed it. But to hopefully help you out. Take it with a grain of salt. Or not. I dont care.

An "I told you so" opportunity is definitely worth coming off lurk mode!


Steve and I actually wander around here more than y'all think and are not behind on the SR20-times. Where do you think we score most of the parts we break

Though all the info on this thread is useful I have to bring attention to our reasoning for going with the P11 trans - and it boils down to 2 points:

COST & WEIGHT

COST - our choice is a fraction of the cost of a 6 speed swap. This becomes an even bigger sticking point when you consider the cost of a replacement gear set for this non-LSD P11 trans.

WEIGHT - less weight = faster car. Equally important is the exponential cost savings of a lighter car.


Those are the only points anyone reading this needs to concern themselves with. The oil choice and shift feel is a waste of time to discuss any further, because it's really just opinion. Redline shock proof is the de facto trans oil for road racing IMHO and I don't care how many big turbo "hot-rods" are running other oils with no problems - and I'm sure those people don't care how many track hours we have on Redline. So let's agree to disagree


We feel our choice is the best for our power levels, environment and wallet size.


Now go read the article again and increase our pageviews! "And thank you for your support"


For the children in the audience that don't get the reference, here you go:
http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7WeZbRbxwg