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Thread: Turbo Porting & Polishing

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Posts: 31-36 of 36
2012-02-24 16:45:38
#31
Vadim, it is simpler than you make it sound. The slightly rough surface by the port injectors promotes some turbulence. Hopefully it is not too much, and just enough to promote homogenous fuel atomization by basically "stirring" the mixture well.
2012-02-24 18:21:45
#32
It's nice when things are simpler then they are in my head... I thought I was oversimplifying it
2012-02-24 22:44:22
#33
Ben, you are close and I think I know you are saying the right thing but you are mis-using the word turbulence. The "roughness" as we called it and as Vadim showed in his nice photos is to add energy to the boundary layer of the flow to keep it from becoming turbulent. When flows turn, say from the plenum to the runners and into the port energy is lost. Just like on a wing/airfoil as angle of attack increases, etc. in an enclosed volume (say a pipe which closely mimmics that of the port) the boundary layer remaining attached to the wall is what will determine how the flow develops. We want a nice fully developed laminar flow, but thats in a perfect isentropic world where we neglect small perturbations. We hope and assume the flow to be laminar and as its energy (created by differences in pressures and velocity-think Bernoulli's Principle) varies it can become transitional an eventually turbulent. Ingesting turbulent air is not good as the fuel wont mix properly by any means and the combustion process will be less than ideal from the turbulence and poor mixing.

The boundary layer of a laminar flow is very sensitive to shear stresses due to viscous effects or other perturbations on the surface which will cause it to separate and transition to turbulence...whereas transitional/turbulent flow boundary layers are robust (less sensitive).

The roughness we speak about needs to be very little, in fact not rough by our standard means of thinking just not mirror like finishes. As the flow enters the port various transitions are occuring which consume the flows energy and thus the "roughness" for lack of better words creates a skin drag or viscous force that will renergize the BL and keep it attached to the surface giving the flow a better chance of staying as close to laminar as possible in said conditions.

In a laminar flow, the air particles are almost uniformly distributed throughout the field which is what makes for good mixing potential wheres a turbulent flow is exactly what it sounds like, chaos lol non-uniformity more particles on one side than the other, since the fuel is denser than the air, (we all know that) its gonna follow the path of least resistance whereas in a laminar flow all of the paths are "the same" so to speak.

the closest thing I could think of that does this same job is a vortex generator, except this process does like you said, introduce turbulence in order to add energy. BUt VGs are ususally used in flows with reynolds numbers much much greater than that of a head port. such as flow over a large wing or an entire vehicle. In a pipe flow its common to use vanes to straighten flow but obviously impractical in a port so viscous effects is all we have to manage it.


and yes...this conversation went to shit due to the 50 topics. I mentioned the turbine grinding process was a poor mans EH and then 50 different things were mention only to arrive at the conclusion that a smooth surface finish on a turbine housing is good and the methods of grinding on a turbine housing and leaving a rough finish are not good.

The horse has been beaten well after it was dead

Cheerio!
Last edited by jRod on 2012-02-24 at 22-53-14.
2012-02-24 22:52:38
#34
jRod, would you also say that tumble and swirl are also non-turbulent?
2012-02-24 23:03:12
#35
well those are adjectives not commonly used in engineering due to their ambiguity lol

If I had to guess: the word "tumble" suggests turbulence, but if a fluid "tumbled' (meaning rotate along a vertical plane or horizontal axis, depending on your reference frame it could still be considered uniform, an possibly laminar in a large reynolds number stream, but most likely not in a port or small control volume...

the word "swirl" sounds less turbulent lol and if you think of a nice uniform rotation about the vertical axis and a horizontal plane (assuming the same reference frame as before) than it would most likely be turbulent as well in a lower Reynolds number flow field liek that of the intake port but possibly laminar in a flow like that of the body of a 747...

a boundary layer if viewed locally, is turbulent
Last edited by jRod on 2012-02-24 at 23-23-55.
2012-02-24 23:08:08
#36
you dont have to stir the mixture to make it stoich... the fuel being of higher density and being injected at a considerably higher pressure than the air charge will make it want to expand to match the environmental characteristics, thus if a uniform flow field is made available for expansion it is possible to achieve ideal (never perfect) a-f mixture say through a tube or a pipe for the purpose of visualizing such a behavior... however if you wait to long without renergizing the charge the more dense fluid will quickly separate. These problems will slowly go away as DI becomes the industry norm.

If we could only do like jet engines and have a constant flame burn our fuel instead of spark ignition life would be better (just being silly of course)
Last edited by jRod on 2012-02-24 at 23-25-44.
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