Thread: Think I went with too big of a turbo...

So it seems like mostly everyone agrees that Vadim should hit a dyno for tuning session as costly as it may be but it will very likely save you a motor. On everything else, let's agree to disagree. Vadim hope you find the issue.

Nevermind.

AFR's are 11.2-11.8. Also I tried redline at 7500 and the power really hit a flat surface and engine tone changed. Might have been a valve float. I figured I had a newer VE because of the metal head gasket though.

I data log the actual ECU timing, and the actual ecu timing at the time of the knock then reduce my timing accordingly.

Fuel pressure is holding well, in fact so well that when I shut off the car the fuel pressure will take a week to get down to 0. Also if fuel pressure wasn't holding, due to a bad FPR, I would be seeing leaner AFR's. If the fuel pressure not holding due to leaky injector O-rings then during the fuel rail prime test, I would have fuel coming out of the sides of the injectors.

I have set my VVL activation at 6k for both cams. While mountain driving today, I hit the engagement point a few times under lower throttle and it felt like a jerk/rev limiter. It was nice to feel the engagement point, even though it was in a form of a car just jerking

I don't know if this makes a difference, my intake ports are ported and port matched to the Thermoblok spacers, the intake manifold is ported and polished too. I wonder if this could be making it easier for reversion to happen?

Another thing I've been noticing is the Engine Load (TP) dropping off towards the redline. It seems like the exhaust manifold is just getting too backed up to be able to flow any more air into the motor.






Sweet will do! 3rd gear might be a little hard, 3rd gear top out is above 90mph. That's reckless driving in VA and a hefty fine. This is why I would love to hit the dyno. But since the dyno is so far away and so expensive just to do 3 pulls, I have to first get a hold of things before I go there and actually tune. Because the last time I went to the dyno (on my SE-L two years ago), I wasted an hour because I didn't know what to do.




I can see that, JWT has to be safe to fit just about everyone's setup, otherwise they are responsible for a new motor... The same way OEM does things. This is why a lightly modified P11 gets 10:1 AFR's at wot and gets worse gas mileage then my turbo car

Just curious, what did you pick up on the top end?

I think the tune will work out some kinks. Vadim, when you hit VVL at 6k, do you feel it kick? Does it just make noise and seem to pull the same? I ran higher boost than you did and it seemed like it would lose power when both cams came on. but on 10-11psi (when i first got it running) it felt NA. Just like you described it. Much faster than NA, but no big turbo surge, and def no VVL surge either.

If you are able to get the VVL to kick like it is supposed to (read 30-50whp jump), let me know what did it.

To be frank, if a friend of mine had a turbo setup like Vadim and was complaining about power loss after 5000rpm. And that person was using a factory 2" exhaust... I would tell him to upgrade the exhaust, not tune it.

Gio, I'd like to see your graphs if you don't mind. Your setup is one of the few that seem to actually work pretty well.

WRONG!!!!!!!!!!! hondata bitches-stock ecu...NUFF SAID now shut up about your fukin car



if you guys wre not so far away i would def take you up on that...i would tow both or your sorry ass's to the "BEST" yes i said the BEST AEM tuner i prolly the world, Chris Miller...and they call him magicman for a reason



your lower compression will show lower numbers, also you stated that both have tubular manifolds-inside diameter of runners as well as the downpipe can show different numbers, what are the exact differences in the setups...twin scroll will NOT effect high/mid/low end power numbers. all that is for is better spool charicteristics, better boost control and the ability to run a smaller gate with a smaller spring and run high boost levels(fastest cars in the scene mostly run smaller 38mm with 10psi springs) there is so many more variables to go along with it and a good tune will make or break you. run to rich or lean and you can loose huge numbers fast, plug heat and gap sizing can also have an enormous effect as well as just using one of those stupid key chain gappers, those NEVER work right

Try just riding RPM up and slowly hit the VVL as you steadily creep up the rev range. You should feel that bog I was telling you about. Under part throttle, even with my current setup, I get a slight bog when the VVL hits on the SR16 cams. However, when I go full throttle, that bog becomes a huge surge... instead of a huge turd.

Since all manifolds are the same design, same SCH40 SS piping, the only real differences are what I listed. Inside diameters are the same.

Twin scroll does affect top end power. It actually hurts it, but moreso on smaller setups like mine. Wanna know why? Here's a pic of the divider in a TS housing. The boundary layer of air around the divider wall makes my 1.06 flow ultimately like a .50ar.

took pics out because they are quoted... and too big lol

Mid-range power gained 60whp easily in spots because of the spoolup. So mid-range power was affected.

But ultimately, I feel the car performed quite well with the others tested that day. Considering my engine is lower compression and smaller turbo... As far as manifold design, they are the same with the exception of the collector (obviously for TS).

why would you run a twin scroll manifold with such a small frame turbo, and small turbo all together. i woulnt run a twin scroll unless i had something in the 70mm+ range(compressor) with nothing smaller than a t4 96ar, with a 68mm turbine wheel, anything smaller than that with a twin scroll is useless, simplify it and run a single scroll, single gated, t3 82ar maybe, and be done. that would have been fine

I did it for the upgradeability and to try something others had not. I like to be different, and try new things. The TS gives way better response on the street while still providing good overall power. The meat of this powerband from 3800-8800rpm is nice.

I've tried for years to get the best, most responsive setup making over 400whp that I could. I have a/w intercooler, TS, VVL, and when it all comes together it feels amazing.

I will be upgrading to a GT35r in the near future. I figure with the response I have now, I can afford to give up a little bit for 100whp.

Recent testing of 2 TS setups. Both you can see the slight loss of topend. and higher revs make it worse. So you have to have a BIG TS housing to really benefit. a 1.22ar would be perfect for me
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1693245&highlight=twinscroll+vs+singlescroll
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?p=33671540&posted=1#post33671540

Chap, im not talking about my car, lol. I have a much better understanding of what went wrong with my last setup the first time around. For one trying to make the power that I was going for on the stock ignition was kinda stupid and a waste of time and yes it cost me damage to the head. The reason it may have went soo early could have still been the fpr issues that i noticed the second time around that caused damage the second time. My tune definitely had too much timing in it up top for sure. Low and midrange felt great once i got the a/f ratio to about 11.8:1 instead of the 10:1 or richer it was running before i messed with it. I had a great low to mid but the turbo with the large turbine was laggy which is known.

Second time around I fixed the timing up top and it went from running perfect, no knock on the data logs and running perfect a/f to running lean as hell and knocking but again that was from the fpr dropping fuel pressure to 25psi. Live and learn is all I could do at that point.

There was nothing wrong with my tune. Only thing that might have and not likely that would have saved damages from happening was my knock input ignition correction table was disabled. But at that lean of an a/f ratio. Doubt it would have done any good. Thats why this time around im adding some extra safety procautions to avoid that happening again or if it doesn i can catch it and the EMS will catch it.

Coheed wanted the response over the topend. Something that spooled quickly and made for a very torquey but yet smooth powerband that was great for daily driving. Nothing wrong with that. Its was his choice of powerband. I like having the better topend which is why i went with the parts I did and the parts im not going with.