Thread: Think I went with too big of a turbo...

Stand Alone if i wanna do over 700hp , anything under that JWT and SAFC

Car could drive better? The car drives like it rolled off the factory floor. The ONLY gremlin I have is that on really hot days the idle will fluctuate a bit, and I have to blip the throttle to get it to stop. The driveability is awesome once warmed up.

What would you guys change after the cam switchover? I have played with the timing globally with the dizzy and found where I seem to make the best mid-top power balance. No amount of timing is going to make peak power any better than what I have already tried.

So if I say that the timing map was checked out by Cortney green, you guys still question it? One of the most respected Honda tuners in the country? What more could you really want? I live in Ogden Utah, Element Racing is the dyno shop I frequent, and Cortney is their tuner. I think I'm gonna take the guys word for it, since I've seen him dyno tune literally hundreds of cars in the 5 years I have known him. I could gain power by using a race-gas tune, but if I use the car on the street... why?

JWT has tuned thousands of cars at this point. MAF based cars change timing values based on airflow. I'm sure if my MAF was bad, my AFR would be all over the place. Instead, they are smooth and consistent around 11.6-11.8.

I'm talking about having a tune set for a specific fuel, then raising the boost and running better fuel for track days. I'm sure if JWT had a race-gas tune, it would work well. But since I run a 91octane map, I'll have to take what I can get.

The cam switch point, regardless where it is set, is not going to put you in any portion of the map that wasn't already accounted for. Is it optimized? probably not. But the airflow tables aren't going to put you in any part of the map that JWT hasn't already considered. They have added in a margin of safety across the board, and that's what I wanted. I would rather have that little cushion there rather than risk and engine by tuning it to the edge.

Overly conservative though? It's 91 octane... how far would you push it?

I've run the boost and timing on the dyno and logged results. I can no doubt make more power with more timing. But I'm more worried about freeing up the hp that is bottled up in the restrictive turbo.

JWT + SAFC II has worked well for me being my little baby setup and all. I get great gas mileage and I am happy with it and others were happy with it at the Convention.

Jamie is a plus right on the dash having tunnel vision. A sad but true, scenario. I wish it could change, hopes and all. Meh.

Well, if everyone here has tunnel vision I'd like to know what you guys suppose. I mean, Vadim has taken a lot of other people's advice, to no avail.

So if you have suggestions, please help. I'm always willing to learn new things. But everyone told me the same exact thing as Vadim, and it really took me doing my own experimentation and documenting the results to benefit everyone and prevent the same scenario. And yet, some of you still believe that what Vadim is experiencing is related to [insert magical cure here].

So if this is a tuning issue, how would you fix it?

If I were to do a standalone, it would be an OBD2 capable setup. Or perhaps a Honda computer. More support for the honda stuff. It wouldn't be road-legal anymore, but I can make that extra 50hp I'm after.

Nothing wrong with an off-the-shelf JWT tune as long as you make sure everything's working correctly. I made 462whp on my stock JDM DE with Tomei cams, log manifold, BB 0.82A/R/60-1 turbo at 23psi (IIRC, something sane like that), and some C16 mixed in for good measure. Only thing I changed was switching to 20* base timing to take advantage the race fuel and clear up some misfire I was seeing.

Could I have made more? Sure, but that car survived for a long time (motor's still good, car just hasn't been registered for a while due to CA smog issues) even running that level of power hotlapping (basically, WOT for 20 minutes straight). Hell, way back when, at the LA convention, I ran the track event, did some drag racing, and drove the car everywhere that weekend, no problems.

That being said, I wonder how far I could've gone with a custom tune. At this time, however, I've got way too many projects to pursue, and when the SE-R sees street duty again, it'll be with a far more sane setup. A powerband that doesn't start until 4500rpm, then slaps you in the face with wheelspin in EVERY gear, while fun, just isn't my cup of tea anymore, especially since I don't want to spike with race fuel all the time, or build a motor.

BTW, not sure if this was already addressed (read the first 5-6 pages, then the last 3-4 pages), but the stock knock sensor is nearly worthless at higher power levels. As I recall from back in the day, JWT said their tune ignores knock sensor input on the larger injector setups because it gives too many false readings.

Also, I was just at JWT a couple of weeks ago dynoing a buddy's car, and Clark was saying the VE's have amazing knock resistance. The car we were dynoing had the MAF get dirty in the middle of the session, and A/F went to 17:1, but we never got a knock count, nor did we hear anything other than the motor sounding a little unhappy. He was saying these motors like a little lean at higher RPM, and you can get away with a lot more aggressive timing/fuel curves on them compared to DE (which would explain all the big power you guys are making on pump gas).

Good info Rockwood.

This is Cliff:

You want to let a Honda guy tune your car? They're vastly different, and I don't care WHO you are, that's a fact.

Case in point: A performance shop here in the area has tuned THOUSANDS of Subaru setups, and doesn't really know the first thing about a Nissan tune. Hell, I wouldn't trust him to even tune my Subaru. EVERY car is different. He's looking at your timing maps and thinking with the Honda frame of mind, so what he thinks is good could be VERY wrong.

The guy was surprised when the Beast I had was strapped to his dyno and made more power on pump gas than most of the Subarus there with larger setups, and I fine tuned it myself with the help of Jamie. The difference? He's a "professional" tuner and couldn't understand how the car made almost 400whp on pump gas at 1bar of boost.

Again, bottom line: Don't trust anyone as far as you can throw them unless they know your car better than you do.

Looking at a timing map doesn't really do much. Every car is different even if they have the same exact setup there will be differences in the tunes. He probably saw the tune and came to the conclusion that it wouldn't blow up. But the best way to make the best reliable power is take it to the dyno, tune it and back it up at the track. I am a true believer in using both the dyno and track to get a real fine tune.

BTW Rockwood your car was pretty impressive, been looking forward to see it back out.

The sr20 is far different than a EJ engine. Tuning them is completely different. But I do trust the honda guys because they know Vtec. I wonder what VVL emulates?

Cortney hasn't just tuned hondas, he has tuned all the VVL in Utah for the most part. You guys really think that some magical timing number is going to make Vadim 300whp on 10psi? Because that's where he should be at. And I guarantee that no amount of timing is going to fix what is going on with his car right now.


Tuning will only get you so far. You can't make 300whp with a NA SR with stock engine parts, no matter the tune.

As far as making 400whp on 1 bar? I make that on 17-18psi, but I'm at 4500ft. I use a JWT tune for 91 octane pump. No amount of timing is going to get me any more power on this gas without melting stuff.

When it comes to Vadim and his issues, he is having the same problem I did. He has the capability to tune, and yet this still has not fixed his issue. So I guess I'm wrong, and you're right. Awesome logic.