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Thread: Think I went with too big of a turbo...

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Posts: 251-260 of 710
2011-08-19 02:36:15
#251
Gio, i retract my statement on the gutted car. Must be a lot lighter than mine, i can't keep a transmission together lol. I went through 4 transmissions last season trapping 122-124mph. They were all P11 (strong) boxes too.

On my old log, i made 360whp on 16psi iirc. With VET cams and a 57 trim .63 housing. That was with a 91 octane tune from JWT. At 4500 ft.

I have my timing maps and maf voltage charts as well. I really don't think it is the tune, and when I had Courtney Green (look him up) look into my tune, he said he would not touch the timing map at all. He said the fuel map was a little aggressive though. It was Courtney that told me that his tune wouldn't benefit me at all, and to keep it the way it was. He liked the timing map from JWT just fine. Below 3000rpm he said he would add 2* timing with a larger turbo, but after 3000rpm he said it was all good.

I'm sure you can make 300whp on the log with stock cams. But I'll tell you this: I make 321whp on 10psi right now with 1.6 cams and the tubular manifold. To get that power with stock cams and a log, it would take about 15-16psi. The VET cams made a huge difference, and I could FEEL the VVL kick. It didn't just make noise.

Here you can see on 24psi with this 57 trim, it was making 442 and you SEE the VVL hit on the VET cams.
Blue line is VET cams 24psi, red is current setup with 13psi.


Here you can plainly see the VVL switch points, both of which you felt kick hard.

When dealing with a mass flow tune, timing all staying the same you will still feel a hefty increase of power when the cam switchover happens. You don't have to tune specifically for this. Perhaps to optimize it, timing may help. But timing staying the same you should still see that power increase from the larger cams. Because more air means more power. And the ECU will adjust to a different area on the map when the airflow increases. If airflow doesn't increase, you won't make any more power. and I believe this to be the case.

At my elevation with my setup that was very similar to Vadim's. On 91 pump it would take 16-18psi to make 300whp on the dynojet. I feel like that is too low. And it isn't a tune issue, you can't beat physics. 20psi of backpressure for 14psi of boost is about what Vadim is seeing. And 48* of overlap is causing reversion. I can guarantee you that. This is not theory at this point. I've tested it.
2011-08-19 02:39:34
#252
Originally Posted by alex_b13
That turbo does not seem to big. I bet it is the tune. I know your car is FWD but most fwd sr20det 240s here in Florida are using 6262 precision non BB turbo making serious power with stock bottom ends I do not think it is your turbo

GIO^^ also tuned my boy stock sr20ve with a gt3076r and made 36XWHP @ 12.5PSI, when the car came in it was making barely 200whp @10Psi lol and with gio magic touch that car woke the F-up lol.


What kind of dyno and do you have a chart?
2011-08-19 03:11:31
#253
Originally Posted by Coheed
What kind of dyno and do you have a chart?


It was a dyno jet. I would ask my buddy if he has the chart.
2011-08-19 04:02:08
#254
Originally Posted by Coheed
.
And 48* of overlap is causing reversion. I can guarantee you that. This is not theory at this point. I've tested it.

How do you measure reversion?
2011-08-19 04:33:59
#255
Reversion can me measured with mass air flow. When the cams switch you should see the voltage jump. If it doesn't, it is likely poor scavenging caused by reversion. Reversion will cause detonation because hot exhaust gas is pushed into the cylinder when the overlap happens.

48* is a ton of overlap. For a stock cam it is pretty aggressive.
2011-08-19 04:50:43
#256
The SR16ve cams have 70* of overlap. lol. But again its all keeping backpressure lower than your boost level. When you do that, Overlap can be very benificial at cooling the cylinders.

You can also measure reversion by measuring backpressure. If your backpressure is higher than your boost levels, You are most certainly getting reversion during overlap periods. The longer the overlap the more heat your allowing to be pushed back into the cylinders during the intake stroke.
2011-08-19 05:52:48
#257
running a twin scroll with sr16 cams makes it very hard for reversion to happen, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. It just isn't cross-cylinder contamination that happens. Exhaust backpressure still hinders my top end power production because as revs go up, so too does the backpressure. I feel like the sr16 cams should pull well into the 8000rpm range with a free-flowing turbo. Mine peaks at 7800rpm and falls sharply from there.

Next, i am going to try some porting on this exhaust housing. Its free, and i think it will help the top end power a bit.
2011-08-19 06:25:40
#258
Originally Posted by Bagato
I do have tunercode too, I guess i'm a bit too old school and rather play with the K value. What are your AFR's after you reach full boost?


I have to keep my eye on the wideband while doing the runs, I can't datalog yet. That's going to change soon with NEMU boards though and NismoTronic.

My number one concern is staying below 12.1, I noticed that the VE pistons are sensitive and knocked at even 12.2 afrs. My AFR's are not 11.1-11.8. Now that I've been playing around with cam switch points.

Originally Posted by gio94sr20ve
On my 50 trim setup with a log manifold and a 2.5 inch dp I was running the stock Vvl pistons at the time and it made 36$ whp.
When I upgraded to a 60 mm I swapped out the pistons but was always running 2.0 cams, I momentarily ran sr16 cams but the midrange was gone and I could not tune the car because I was running a jwt at the time so I sold them and went back to 2.0 cams.
As it is now I just did my friends car a Vvl with a log manifold and it making good good power with more to go.
And as far as my car being gutted....lmao. The only time I took things out to race was when I was all motor, and what I would take out would be my spare and the speaker box. I don't hassle gutting, I let the power and driving do it's work. I race full interior with my daughters car seats and my bass.
Heck I don't even like to be lowering the tire pressure18-20 psi is the lowest I've gone.


Thanks for posting here Gio. What PSI where you running before? I'm seeing in your sig you are saying 21 psi. I'm thinking that may be the reason your not having the issues.

As for the tune, I'm trying to run as much timing possible without knocking. Maybe there is some strategy that I'm missing?
2011-08-19 07:51:33
#259
Originally Posted by gio94sr20ve
I don't see anything wrong with the car, open back up your spark plug gap. There is no need your not pressurizing the cylinders enough for that and just Dyno, it will tell you everything you need to know if you know what your looking for. I never went by those knock device things, I just Dyno and read plugs and feel the engine for any noise and or hiccups.
Big ups to the northeastern boys.


With the BKR6E-N's max I could run was .020 gap. Mind you I am side gapping them, the contact is greatly reduced, thus you need to reduce your gap by around .010. So .020, would actually be .030.

As of last Friday I'm running BKR7E's, not even the N's, and I'm able to run .022, I will try .024 later. Maybe the 6E-N's where more sensitive to bigger gap.
2011-08-19 08:00:56
#260
Originally Posted by Coheed
running a twin scroll with sr16 cams makes it very hard for reversion to happen, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. It just isn't cross-cylinder contamination that happens. Exhaust backpressure still hinders my top end power production because as revs go up, so too does the backpressure. I feel like the sr16 cams should pull well into the 8000rpm range with a free-flowing turbo. Mine peaks at 7800rpm and falls sharply from there.

Next, i am going to try some porting on this exhaust housing. Its free, and i think it will help the top end power a bit.


Have you ever measured the backpressure properly on your set up ith say an egt gauge? might be a worth while investment.
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