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Think I went with too big of a turbo...

Thread: Think I went with too big of a turbo...

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Posts: 231-240 of 710
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2011-08-18 20:25:41
#231
On the phone with Gio. Before the 60-1 he was running a T3T4 50 trim with a .48 stage 2 back housing on a log manifold and stock 2.0 cams

The car made 367 whp at 16 pounds of boost. The car ran (in full trim) 11.90 at 123 mph.

So yeah the reason why you guys are not making power is because of the small turbo and log manifold....
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2011-08-18 20:34:35
#232
Originally Posted by SE-Rican
On the phone with Gio. Before the 60-1 he was running a T3T4 50 trim with a .48 stage 2 back housing on a log manifold and stock 2.0 cams

The car made 367 whp at 16 pounds of boost. The car ran (in full trim) 11.90 at 123 mph.

So yeah the reason why you guys are not making power is because of the small turbo and log manifold....


Missing a few details about Gio's build...

Originally Posted by gio94sr20ve
I agree I am not a fan of the logs, I have always massaged the inside
of the manifolds, alot of blending and smoothing around the wastegate ,port flange and the t-3 flange required some work, then I match port the t3 flange to the exhaust housing. All three log manifolds I have had I have alwYs invested time into them
example
1. My boy with a nx, de- t 57 trim turbo.63 rear stage three wheel. 16 psi 374 whp(one of my old manifold)
2.danilo (r.I.p) 21 psi 436 whp stock motor also bc cams stage2 lof manifold ( another one I massaged) he wanted 500 whp so we got 502 whp with a 50 shot of nos . 57 trim turbo stage three wheel, .48 back housing.
Both turbo setups and mines recieved the same attention to smooth out the flow. I would love a equal lenth manifold but no$$$$$$.
When my car with the same setup had 1.6 cams it made power to redline with no drop off at all at 8000 rpm's .I took the cams out because I felt it to peaky. I put the 2.0 in there and it made A bit more in the mid range over the 1.6.
I wish I would have kept the 1.6 cams now because after tuning my car, I was able to gain 45-50 more whp alone on timing in the mid range, so now I see the lack of mid range was not the cams but the Ecu I was using at the time.


Originally Posted by gio94sr20ve
Well they are the common log manifolds, I just have never been the type
to just drop things in and hope they work, I alwaYs look at those things that many times may get over looked, if you look at the different brand of tees that are used to make logs they are similar ouside but different on the inside.
Some brands have a smooth rounded Radius inside walls making a smooth rounded 90 Some other brands are straight cut 90 and No radius in the walls they are sharp at the edge and not round. Not all t3 flanges are the same, so I just gasket match them to the rear housing, it's work ,but if I cannot invest money into my setup the least I can do is invest my time. On my old de motor I gasket ported my exhaust port and manifold and the seat Dyno said it was a ++++++ of time invested, rob saw how my car on pump gas third gear would torque the car, at 17 psi the car was doing 360 whp 7000 rpm's and 321 tq at 4800 rpm's
it was at a Dyno day with the fl sr20 guys, so witnesses I had

so overall to me the 1.6 cams netted me more peak power on my setup but the 2.0 cams felt better in the mid range and had a bit of drop off up top on my setup, the 2.0 makes the car feel more responsive and with a wider powerband on the street. with the 1.6 I made peak torque at 6,500 to 7,000 rpms, where my 2.0 cams made more from vvl activation till about 7,000 rpms.
when I switched ecu setups I was able to get much more power in the mid range out of the 2.0s, so now I wonder if the 1.6 cams would be better for me now that can give it timimg in the mid to up the tq and keep the topend of the sr16 cams, that would be nice.



Full good read starts on page 3: http://www.sr20-forum.com/turbo/31196-cams-ve-t-3.html

Even Nate you yourself have said this...

Originally Posted by wnwright
I had a modified GTIR manifold with external on VET. Made more power with SR16 cams than stock SR20.

Log manifolds don't like overlap at all... No surprise. If you want to compare cams do it on a manifold with some runner length so you can actually compare cams and not limitations of log manifolds.
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2011-08-18 20:43:00
#233
I also did some first hand experiments after that.

There is no denying that longer runner length tubular manifold is better (dealing with overlap and making power), but a log can still make power. You aren't pushing the boundaries where it matters yet.
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2011-08-18 20:43:58
#234
It's still a log manifold

We can't give away all of our secrets. If we told you guys half the things we do your heads will explode because the Theories will not match up.


Ok .... Back to the bushes I go.
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2011-08-18 20:46:01
#235
Originally Posted by wnwright
I also did some first hand experiments after that.

There is no denying that longer runner length tubular manifold is better (dealing with overlap and making power), but a log can still make power. You aren't pushing the boundaries where it matters yet.


Someone get this this man a BEER
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2011-08-18 20:47:57
#236
Vadim, what do you mean when you say you have stock K value???
Also, why dont you post some vids of a couple of runs.
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2011-08-18 20:49:08
#237
Originally Posted by SR20GTi-R
Someone get this this man a BEER



I got them...



Sorry for the pic. I was tired and on my feet for over 12 hours.
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2011-08-18 20:49:39
#238
i know why it doesnt make power..... but i cant tell
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2011-08-18 20:52:58
#239
Here are the maf voltages, vvl kicks in at 4k rpm. I circled the visible bump on the line graph. This is an E60 MAF, 325whp max on this maf.



Originally Posted by wnwright
I also did some first hand experiments after that.

There is no denying that longer runner length tubular manifold is better (dealing with overlap and making power), but a log can still make power. You aren't pushing the boundaries where it matters yet.


Any findings/data that you care to share?

Originally Posted by SE-Rican
It's still a log manifold

We can't give away all of our secrets. If we told you guys half the things we do your heads will explode because the Theories will not match up.


Ok .... Back to the bushes I go.


That's the main difference. Then you guys always b*tch and moan about us new folks trying to reinvent the wheel. When in reality no one wants to share data. I've learned a lot by digging knee deep, and just about everything I find I tried to post up on this forum, so that other people can benefit and build on it. All of the ECU tuning crap that I've learned over the years, I'm trying to make it all public so that other people can learn it too.

I pay a good amount for web hosting per year, just to hold images so that I can share them with the forum. I could have just went through and cleaned out my photobucket account from the previous build, and used that space. But it is/was useful to too many new folks that are in my shoes just starting out from scratch.

What's the point of hoarding it, not like we are competing against each on race wars next week.

So then you CANNOT compare your heavily modified engines with logs to what I have and what Coheed had.

Originally Posted by Bagato
Vadim, what do you mean when you say you have stock K value???
Also, why dont you post some vids of a couple of runs.


Tunercode bro

Lets you not touch the K value and adjust the injector size which adjusts the AFR's.
Last edited by Vadim on 2011-08-18 at 21-00-34.
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2011-08-18 21:00:23
#240
Originally Posted by Vadim

That's the main difference. Then you guys always b*tch and moan about us new folks trying to reinvent the wheel. When in reality no one wants to share data. I've learned a lot by digging knee deep, and just about everything I find I tried to post up on this forum, so that other people can benefit and build on it. All of the ECU tuning crap that I've learned over the years, I'm trying to make it all public so that other people can learn it too.

I pay a good amount for web hosting per year, just to hold images so that I can share them with the forum. I could have just went through and cleaned out my photobucket account from the previous build, and used that space. But it became useful to too many new folks where were in my shoes just starting out from scratch.

What's the point of hoarding it, not like we are competing against each on race wars next week.

So then you CANNOT compare your heavily modified engines with logs to what I have and what Coheed had.




Listen bro I am sorry if I came across like an asshole. It was not my intention. I guess I just got worked up in the moment.

You have certain people who have been doing these type of things for a long time. You have a person (Jamie) who is giving you some great advice and people are challenging it. (I am not saying you). That dude has done things that most of us have not even thought yet.

Also another thing is people making these type of builds way to complicated. Coheed I promise you the issues you are having are in your tune. Its not the cams or the manifold or the size of your turbo. I am not a great tuner. I just know the basics. Keep talking and Jamie. He will be of great help. If you are willing to listen he will help you.

Again I appologize. Let me look at the map you posted for a bit and if I come up with an idea I will post it.

Also about Gio's car. I just want to claridy this so people don't get info twisted. Gio's car was very very budget. He does what he can with what he has. He just puts thought into it.

Here is the set up.

SR20VE
DET pistons and rods
Homemade log manifold that was port matched
3 inch DP and Exhaust
Stock 2.0 VE cams
38 mm WG
FMIC

all tuned on one of his ECU's. Nothing special honestly.
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