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Thread: Think I went with too big of a turbo...

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Posts: 131-140 of 710
2011-08-11 12:48:58
#131
Originally Posted by Vadim
Everyone emphasis peak timing
Ignore them. They have no experience with tuning a timing map. They are all getting completely confused. They are thinking base ignition timing.

Originally Posted by Vadim
Alright played around with the TP. At a very low speed I put it into the highest gear possible then opened the throttle all the way. The car very slowly picked up the speed, but the boost gauge stayed at 0psi, which is what we wanted.

Looking back at the data logs, I see where the throttle is 100% open, the TP (Engine Load) spikes up to 60 TP, then instantly backs down to 55. My 0 psi is around 55 TP. Thus Nissan TP is proportionate to the airflow. I also do see a spike up in the MAF voltages, by about 1 volt.
That is a bit surprising, but not entirely so. I'd be real curious how the TP log would go through the entire rev range assuming you could keep things at 0 psi the entire time. I would wager TP would rise and fall with torque.

What rpm did you do this? Anything above 1,500 rpm would not really show you much since torque stays about the same around there and soon after.
2011-08-11 13:28:06
#132
Originally Posted by Coheed
Thanks ashton.

I'm not really against the log manifold with the VVL. But you do get much better results with something else. I bet a GTiR mani with a GT2871r would perform better honestly.


I bet a .82 housing would work better as well.


I agree 100%
2011-08-11 15:24:41
#133
Originally Posted by Vadim
Everyone emphasis peak timing, is that really the number one killer of the motors? I would expect midrange timing being at fault too.

Coheed, I'm so tempted to slap on an NA header on the car, just to see how it is supposed to be fully na. I wont know how a NA VE feels, until I get a VE dropped into wife's car. But as it stands right now the VVL switch is very mild at best.

Now I'm loosing some oil, I haven't seen blue smoke though. But I wonder if the pistons are leaking. The motor did do 210psi, which seems healthy.


You are 30psi down from a healthy VE which is 240psi per cylinder

You may want to cap the pcv vac port on the IM and leave the valve cover open or fed into a catch can to see if there its any blow by or the oil consumption goes down.

Why dont you try 8deg where the car make full boost 15psi (4800-5000) then bring it up to 18 deg at peak hp that should be close to 7000rpm and see what happen..
Last edited by Payu on 2011-08-11 at 15-29-11.
2011-08-11 17:07:12
#134
My only concern with the timing is that reversion is more present at higher rpm when exhaust backpressure is highest. Lots of timing with lots of heat can cause issues. I experienced detonation at only 16psi boost. Up here, that is like 14.5 psi compared to sea level. I only noticed it when the motor was torn apart a few months later. I just don't want to see another motor bite the dust. My motor was 9.3:1 when that detonation was occurring.

A lot of people said a year later that the fuel-cut rev limiter wouldn't cause detonation either. My knock light told me otherwise. and it cost me another set of pistons. The new motor has lasted a while. Though my own R&D was used to find the limits, it cost me a lot, but I also learned a lot. So it was money well spent.

The car performs so well now, I haven't turned the boost up past 10psi on the street. But 26psi is awesome. I'll try porting out the divided housing on my GT30r and post the results. I'm gonna remove the divider in the end of the housing where the restriction seems more present. It should net me 20-30whp, but it is anyone's guess because noone has done it.
2011-08-11 19:59:02
#135
Originally Posted by BenFenner
TP calc = torque
MAF voltage = power
MAP+IAT = load

And if you logged them all on a 3rd gear pull, you'd see they don't follow the same curves at all.
TP follows torque output. MAF voltage follows power output, and the pressure readings will hit peak boost and stay there to redline (setup willing).


I can vouch for this... data logged my MAF voltage and was quite shocked at how accurately it followed my dyno chart... even had the vvl dip...
2011-08-12 15:30:29
#136
Originally Posted by BenFenner
Ignore them. They have no experience with tuning a timing map. They are all getting completely confused. They are thinking base ignition timing.

That is a bit surprising, but not entirely so. I'd be real curious how the TP log would go through the entire rev range assuming you could keep things at 0 psi the entire time. I would wager TP would rise and fall with torque.

What rpm did you do this? Anything above 1,500 rpm would not really show you much since torque stays about the same around there and soon after.


Indeed, like with the enthalpy map, I saw more knocking at 2k rpm then anywhere else!

I'm tempted to try that out now, It's very hard to keep the car at 0 psi without building too much power. Doing this test on NA car would be the most optimal way to go probably.

I did the test at 800-2,000 rpm, very slow speeds .

Originally Posted by Payu
You are 30psi down from a healthy VE which is 240psi per cylinder

You may want to cap the pcv vac port on the IM and leave the valve cover open or fed into a catch can to see if there its any blow by or the oil consumption goes down.

Why dont you try 8deg where the car make full boost 15psi (4800-5000) then bring it up to 18 deg at peak hp that should be close to 7000rpm and see what happen..


No oil in PCV, everything seems clean. Saw a dripping point under the car. Might be the oil pan afterall, or might be my front main seal. My crank pulley is making a swishing sound when. I thought it was the waterpump, but even with a new one it's still there. I think I will be installing the stock pulleys back and forgetting about using lightweight stuff.

Originally Posted by Coheed
My only concern with the timing is that reversion is more present at higher rpm when exhaust backpressure is highest. Lots of timing with lots of heat can cause issues. I experienced detonation at only 16psi boost. Up here, that is like 14.5 psi compared to sea level. I only noticed it when the motor was torn apart a few months later. I just don't want to see another motor bite the dust. My motor was 9.3:1 when that detonation was occurring.

A lot of people said a year later that the fuel-cut rev limiter wouldn't cause detonation either. My knock light told me otherwise. and it cost me another set of pistons. The new motor has lasted a while. Though my own R&D was used to find the limits, it cost me a lot, but I also learned a lot. So it was money well spent.

The car performs so well now, I haven't turned the boost up past 10psi on the street. But 26psi is awesome. I'll try porting out the divided housing on my GT30r and post the results. I'm gonna remove the divider in the end of the housing where the restriction seems more present. It should net me 20-30whp, but it is anyone's guess because noone has done it.


I think the reversion is what would cause it to choke up a bit and not be as responsive compared to a tubular.

Also I love the Spark cut, I cut both fuel and spark at 7krpm. It's a very smooth cut off, and the car bounces back to redline because I didn't realize I hit it. .
2011-08-14 14:56:18
#137
hey guys is the sr16 n1 intake and throttle body good for turbo application
2011-08-14 18:29:50
#138
If it is done right.. then yes. The runners need porting a bit. Andreas could tell you more.
2011-08-16 22:57:26
#139
I've been reading up on some cams and I think another reason why the car might feel slow is due to my 7k redline. I'm not exactly sure on what my spring pressures are thus I wasn't sure if I would get valve float or not.

Seeing this post tells me that I've been missing out on the max power to begin with.
Originally Posted by BlueRB240
7500 to keep it safe. your peak power is @ 7100-7200 then it starts to fall like a rock. Revving the stock cam out to 8k on a N/A motor isn't worth it.


I am worried about valve float still though. Will have to do one run and monitor it to make sure it doesn't hit the pistons.
2011-08-16 23:04:55
#140
With stock cams and that turbo you will make power all the way to 8k vadim and yes its safe to rev it to that. Hell i did 8k with s4's on a de head stock valve springs and retainers for over a year with no issues.

Your peak power will probably be at about 7400-7500 with that turbo and still be holding fairly close to peak power by 8k. You need to rev that thing out more than 7k, lol. You are missing out on a whole 1000 rpm of more power and longer powerband.
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