Thread: gtir or de?

wanted some opinions. i have a gtir that needs a ring land installed on one cyln, just picked the car up last week. i want to transfer my previous setup into my new car, and cant decide on the motor i want to use. first of my goals are 450 hp or so. low 11 second street car. i have all the important go fast bits, thats not the problem. my delima is making my mind up on the motor. should i just rering the gtir, throw some acl rod bearings in and a cometic headgasket with arp studs, or should i sell it/trade it for a good de? i was under the impression that a gtir has more or less bulletproof internals. de, close, but not as good. opinions? anyone know what the limiting internal parts are? hope i dont sound compleley clueless.....i just need some pros/cons. kinda vague i know, just want a 500 hp capable motor, figured i could do that with more or less stock gtir internals.

i would keep the gtir and rebuild it.

internals should be good for my power goals, am i correct?

You mean the ring land on the piston is ruined, so you need a new piston?

Or do you mean the sleeve/bore is ruined and you need a new sleeve?

If you do decide to stick with the GTi-R block, skip the cometic head gasket (worse than stock) and ARP head studs (incorrectly designed). Use stock stuff or better upgrades.

I mean, within reason your impressions are correct. The DE is the weakest engine suffering from the weakest rods, no oil squirters, weakest oil pump and the compression ratio is a little high for max power at 9.5:1.

The regular DETs are stronger with better rods, oil squirters, slightly better oil pumps, and a favorable 8.5:1 compression ratio.

The GTi-R engine is really an oddball engine with 1mm thicker head bolts, 2mm wider crank bearings with additional oil holes, a better oil pump, even better rods, a even lower compression ratio of 8.3:1, a better flowing head, individual throttle bodies, etc. It's really a freak.

That being said, the weakest of the engines (the DE) is know to hold at least 500 WHP but that's it's limit. The DETs can go to 550-600 at best, and then the GTi-R can maybe eek out 650 or so, maybe more. This is taking them to their ragged edge, kept almost completely stock.


I believe, as long as you keep detonation at bay, the limiting factor of the engines is the cast piston, and in the case of the DEs, the slimmer rods. They will fail first I believe.

Is this your opinion or is it a fact??, cause I´ve read different things about ARP and cometic products...

Saludos,

I've argued in the past that the ARP studs are just fine, but the overwhelming evidence (including two admissions from ARP themselves) is that the studs are not designed properly.

If you'de like to read up more on the subject, try these:

http://www.sr20-forum.com/turbo/13810-great-headstud-thread.html
http://www.sr20-forum.com/turbo/4708-headstud-comparison.html
http://www.sr20-forum.com/turbo/17719-arp-stud-bottoms-out-srs.html

put on my flame retardant..

i thing the probs with arp studs has more to do with tuning than the studs.

i have used both arp sets and golden eagle. if cylinder pressure gets to high your head will lift .

the gtir uses bigger bolts i would get arp studs for the gtir . arp sells low grade sets and
higher grade studs for more money and foot work


i call bull shi t on det 600hp de 500 hp

i know i put down 350 with a de for a year steped it up over 400 killed it bent the rods causing uneaven bearing wear

det did 400 2 months killed ring lands

yes agressive tuning did kill my engines .

hone that gtir block . instal mahale pistons and acl bearings . beat the living shi t of it every day

If I remember correctly, Kijoma's nephew did 540 WHP on a stock DE, which is why I said what I said.

i gess it comes down to do you want a dyno queen or a daily driver

last I checked jp rocked over 500whp on a rr de. several others have made over 500whp on a de and they were all street cars not dyno quuens. tune it right and it will not blow up.