Thread: Major timing issue!

Ok, here is the deal. I have a gti-r motor and am suppose to be running 20* timing from the factory and everything. Well when i took off my valve cover and put the cam gears at TDC (cam gears at 10 & 12) everything was perfect except my crank pully was on 7* Now I know I was at TDC because I took out the number one plug and put a screwdriver in there and you can see that the piston was all the way up. My timing chain links between each other's marks is 20, so that is right. This is the really weird part I had to move my distributor as far as it would go in timing mode to get it to the last mark on the crank pulley(20*).

My tuner buddy says I am off a tooth(meaning on booth sprockets)

The main issue here is I am not running the proper timing and probably losing a nice chunk of HP.

Anybody have any suggestions here?

The problem here is people dont understand what TDC realy is. The words TDC is thrown around loosely. Having your cam sprokets at 10 and 12 have nothing to do with being at TDC.

Putting a screw driver on the piston does not tell you anything more than the piston is -5 degrees close to the top, at the top, +5 degrees close to the top or anywhere in between.

Next your distributor timing at 20 degrees has nothing to do with checking if the car is at TDC.

Mechanical TDC is a function of your cam sproket dots being under your 2 colored links on the chain at the same time. When this happens your 3rd colored link will line up on the crank sproket dot but you can not see that. The way to check to see if everything is lined up and is at TDC is to make sure that the crank pully mark " zero " is under the timing light pointer. When the cam dots and colored links line up at the same time, when this happens all at the same time you are at Mechanical TDC.

To get this to happen you might have to turn over the motor a maximum of 40 times.

Most Important Rule
Never turn over your motor manually with the chain tensioner out. The chain tensioner must always be in when turning the motor.

This is the only time one should be pulling of cam sprockets and putting on adjustable cam sprockets.

Then I guess thats not my question. i guess my question is why is my distributor fully maxed? And why when i line up everything else my timing light pointer is pinting at about 7 instead of 0? btw I had the silver chain links on the marks and everything still was good except the pointer was pointing at 7*. What do you think the problem is here? I know the tensioner was changed before i got the motor (when it was in a gti-r) because they used good ole' orange rtv.

I am thinking that maybe something happened when it was in its original shell. Like for example the old tensioner broke and the chain skipped???

What do you think is the problem? My tuner is having to run alot of timing in my timing maps to compensate for my timing being off (He used a knock meter to make sure there was no knocking), but the car is still not right. It just doesn't pull like it should.....

Well the chain could not have skipped.

If you say your sprokets are lined up then it could not have skipped because if it did it would be 20* off.

The cam sproket has 36 teeth, each tooth represents 10 degrees.

The crank sproket has 18 teeth, each tooth represents 20 degrees.

So if both silber links were over the 2 dots at the same time then there is not way the chain could have skipped.

What if both silver links were one link over on each sprocket? Meaning they were both one over past the dot to the right. Could that mean they could have skipped? And that would also explain the distributor or no??

That would mean that both were off and that means that the reading would be off by 10 degrees which would put your 7 degree reading inot persective.

What I would do is take the spark plugs out.


Then get some white out and put some on the cams sproket dots and on the silver links to make them more clear ( clean area with brake cleaner to make sure the white out adhears to where you put it. )

I want you to keep turning over the motor for 80 times, keep looking to see at anytime if the dots line up under the colored links at the same time. If not go back to the setting where the links are lined up as you saw them and correct the probelm.

Please also check and make sure the outer part of the crank pully has not seperated from the inner part of the crank pully.

Exactly, listen to miko here. If it was one tooth off you would definetly notice it. One tooth on the crank is 20 deg, one tooth on the cam sprockets are 10 deg. If you have 20 rollers in between your intake and exhaust cam dots and the cam pins are close to 10 and 12 then your good, 7 deg is neglegable. because sticking a screwdriver or whatever in the cylinder doesnt tell you nothing. There is about 15 deg of crank turn that the piston will look like its at tdc that you cant see the piston moving up or down at all. that is a fact.

Your timing is good by the way you described it.

You know you can move the crank a tad to 7 or 5 or even 10, especailly if you look at it the way you want to, so you see what you want to. I really feel that the chain definitely jumped over a tooth on both sprockets and is causing my problem.



I will do this just to prove to me that this is the problem and make sure also. What is the best way to correct the problem if infact the chain did skip a tooth on both sprockets?

I am ordering some s3m's, so I will do all this before I put them in.

btw where is that post you put up about putting cams in? My tuner, who btw is a very knowledgeable guy and works mainly on RWD det's, but knows what he is doing, will be helping me do all this so i don' t make any mistakes.

Yes the outer part of the crankshaft pulley is fine. They are not separated.

I know there is something missing from this car. I can just tell especially up top!

Thanks sooo much dre. Thanks also for helping me with the turbo decision, you seem to be one of the few people that like the 2871r

I will post up what happens

My timing is NOT good. My car wouldn't run when the distributor screw was in the middle where it belongs. I had to move it completely up or back, which ever way you want to look at it to get the car running, then my tuner buddy did the best he could to tune around the problem by giving me so much timing that the car had to run! I tried so many maps that calum gave me and the car would barely run and most of the time stall. Like i said there is DEFINITELY something wrong with my timing. Again if my buddy didn't make me custom maps my car wouldn't even move.

Every other sr20 motor I have owned (3 all together all,which i put cams in btw) when you would put the cam gears at 10 & 12 you could always get the crank to line up on zero, but not with this car, thats why I know something is wrong