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Thread: E-85

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Posts: 31-40 of 70
2009-01-08 19:24:57
#31
^Not bad at all.
2009-01-08 22:36:47
#32
Originally Posted by BenFenner
Just so no one is confused by VeryQuikSSS's posts, technically the car doesn't run any richer on E85. Or it shouldn't if properly tuned. Actually, because of the higher octane, you can run leaner than you normally would with gasoline if you felt like it.

"Lean" and "rich" typically refer to having more or less fuel than stoichiometric. This means that with gasoline, if you have an AFR of 14.7:1 your mixture is technically stoichiometric. With E85, as mentioned, the stoichiometric mixture is 9.765:1 which means that you need much more fuel per air molecule to reach a "perfect" combustion.

While the car will need more fuel with E85, technically it's not running "rich" as VeryQuikSSS has described. It just has more fuel.

Now, about the air/fuel ratio, and tuning. Tuning with a wideband sensor and E85 is effectively the same for both gasoline and E85 because the oxygen sensor reads unburnt oxygen, and doesn't care at all what fuel you use. If your Wideband displays lambda, good for you. You can use 1.0 lambda as stoichiometric as you always have and call it a day. You can also feel warm and fuzzy inside knowing your display is technically accurate too.

Those with displays that show air/fuel ratios instead of lambda like "14.7:1", "12.0:1" and "15.5:1" can tune the same exact way they always have as well. While technically the air/fuel ratio while running E85 might be 9.765:1, the display will show "14.7:1". This is technically incorrect, but completely useful and easily interpreted if you just assume you're using gasoline, and use the values you've always tuned to. This means that you can tune to "12.0:1" ratio on the gauge and it will result in the proper amount of fuel being delivered for boost whether you're running gasoline, E85, propane, hydrogen, etc.



Very well said bro.
2009-01-08 23:26:37
#33
You guys also gotta consider that E85 varies. In winter the ethanol percentage is reduced. I'm not sure if that happens in hot states though. Tuning on the edge could be dangerous for a motor because of the reduction that takes place in ethanol concentration.

I've been thinking about this myself. Does anybody know what the injector o rings are made of? And what metal the gas tank and fuel lines are made of? Also the plastics the materials that seal the fuel tank and the fuel pump itself. I think you can get away with it for a while, but long term use is still in question. Ethanol is not as corrosive as methanol. One thought I had on this issue was if Brazilian sentras b13's or b14's were designed to run on higher concentrations of ethanol. We might have a supply of compatible parts sitting in the Brazilian market.

When I get out of school and get serious into road racing. I'd like to run a biofuel just for the piece of mind of reducing the toxic stuff that racing puts into the air.

Rob this might help you on your search for E85. There is an option for E85 and other fuels. Gas Prices - Find The Lowest Gas Prices Near You at Mapquest! Including BioDiesel and E85 stations.
My local E85 pump is 2.9 miles away. Maybe in two years time there will be something closer. Hopefully E85 will stay cheap. I definitely think it will catch on with the racing community. Cheaper then race gas, the octane rating is almost up race gas level, and none of the toxic stuff that is in race gas.
2009-01-09 00:10:29
#34
Originally Posted by Andreas
I am proud of you BenFenner, you are doing your homework and it is starting to show.


It is all in the AEM 101 manuals that you can download and in many manuals of different standalone systems and fuel injection books. He is willing to take the time to explain it to forum readers which is wonderful. I hope that many more will do the same.

Brent
2009-01-09 04:42:23
#35
Brazil uses E85 as well, as E100 is a terrilbe fuel.

also, winter e85 concentrations mean that when the ethanol is reduced, there is more petrol which means the engine runs rich and acts as a safety buffer against any aggressive tune.
2009-01-09 07:20:06
#36
during winter some stations sell E70 which is 70% methanol of course, and works just as good as E85 or at least all the ppl that have used it in Supras.

For some reason they also recommend swapping to a flex fuel 02 sensor.I believe its because of reliability and some say helps with tuning. i personally havent used it,but there's a station like 2 miles from my house
2009-01-09 08:31:12
#37
Originally Posted by 92_sEnAtRa
during winter some stations sell E70 which is 70% methanol of course, and works just as goos as E85 or at least all the ppl that have used it in Supras.

For some reason they also recommend swapping to a flex fuel 02 sensor.I believe its because of reliability and some say helps with tuning. i personally havent used it,but there's a station like 2 miles from my house


The winter blend of e85, basically e70 is alright. Im running e85 already in my NX and is working great. Im running 1600cc inj. with dual walboro's and -8an lines. On one of our DSM's we are running 31lbs of boost with a decent amount of timing and zero knock, we really have not found the limits of this fuel. Then if you really want to have some fun e98 is the way.....around 122 octane or comparable to VP import.

Although we have not pushed my car on the dyno fully yet.....we will see what happens......But e85 is everywhere in MN...This is cheap race gas!!!!!
2009-01-09 13:44:34
#38
Originally Posted by sniper571
The winter blend of e85, basically e70 is alright. Im running e85 already in my NX and is working great. Im running 1600cc inj. with dual walboro's and -8an lines. On one of our DSM's we are running 31lbs of boost with a decent amount of timing and zero knock, we really have not found the limits of this fuel. Then if you really want to have some fun e98 is the way.....around 122 octane or comparable to VP import.

Although we have not pushed my car on the dyno fully yet.....we will see what happens......But e85 is everywhere in MN...This is cheap race gas!!!!!


^Why is e85 so cheap right now? Has it always been cheap? The race gas at the "Cowboy Gas Station" near my house is not cheap. I believe it was c16 though.
2009-01-09 13:55:54
#39
Originally Posted by MR-4Door-SR20DE
^Why is e85 so cheap right now? Has it always been cheap? The race gas at the "Cowboy Gas Station" near my house is not cheap. I believe it was c16 though.


E85 is not really race gas, it is an alternative fuel that is cheaper to make than gasoline. It also has burns way cleaner.

The High performance value is the octane of E85 is about 107-110. It also burns much cooler which is great for high boost turbo applications less chance to detonate.

Only one draw back is consumption is higher
2009-01-09 14:40:37
#40
Originally Posted by Andreas
E85 is not really race gas, it is an alternative fuel that is cheaper to make than gasoline. It also has burns way cleaner.

The High performance value is the octane of E85 is about 107-110. It also burns much cooler which is great for high boost turbo applications less chance to detonate.

Only one draw back is consumption is higher


will high powered N/A VVL's benifit from using E-85
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