Thread: Thoughts on a full race motor setup (Turbo Posts)

I still would like to know if the N1 Intake manifold and TB would be a good budget upgrade on a VET over the stock manifold, or if I should not even bother.

Also, about spark plugs, on lets say 20psi, grade 7 or 8??

The N1 intake manifold and TB works wonders on a VET.

Turbo to intercooler 2.5 inch piping
Intercooler to TB 3 inch piping.

The TB on a VE is 60mm this is perfect for a 2.5 inch intercooler pipe.
The NI TB is 70mm which is perfect for a 3 inch pipe.

When putting a N1 intake setup on your VET dont forget to port it out

That will be the next step with the new setup. Piping will be changing to 2.5 on hot and 3" on cold. Right now it is 2" hot and 2.5" cold.

The bigger TB has been thought about, but isn't on my list of first upgrades.

Coheed I dont understand you.

The ID of a 76mm ( 3 in ) pipe is aboit 72mm. The N1 TB is 70mm so thats perfect for the piping.

Your going to run 3 inch pipe on a 60mm TB. Thats is not going to do any better as it is going to bottle neck at the 60mm TB. The pipe is only as good as its smallest point.

Next if you are running 2 inch hot and 2.5 inch hot pipes right now that is the major reason why you are not making the HP goals you need. Step up the hot side to 2.5 inch and you will see the power go up.

2 inch piping for intercooler is way to small for anything over 350 WHP

^^^ I know that

I will be upgrading the piping first is what I meant. The TB is an extra $200 that isn't in my budget right now, but that could change if I get some of my old parts sold.

I will be getting a full aluminum IC pipe setup this next time around. I have to do baby steps now because of the baby, and the wife doesn't work anymore so the project has to go in steps now.

^Good deal. Family first then fun parts for the car. Why did you decide to go with 2" from the get go anyway? I don't understand that either on a VE+T project with a big turbo.

This is basically what i do on VET builds. The N1 manifold and T/B do make a big gain in power. As for the intercooler piping. I have run 3" from the turbo to the T/B before but have seen slight gains in transient response with a 2.5" hot side pipe with less volume to pressurize.

I do have about 20 dyno sheets to scan and upload tonight comparing several items I have found with the VE motors NA and boost. I do have sheets comparing 3 GT3071R turbo setups, T2 .86, T3 .63 and T3 .82 divided setups. Also i have found the dyno's of the last VET setup comparing cam timing. Most of these builds are not super crazy, somewhat easy setups to do in reality.

-Ted

POST EM UP!!!

I do have 2.5" piping on the cold side. I thought it was 2", but my memory has faltered. It is 2.5 on hot and 2.5 on cold.

^Dang Ted, you been busy. You came out of no where in this thread. You seem to know a lot about our motors and other motors as well. Glad to have you.

Ok, so my scanner still is not working so i tried to take decent photo's of the dyno sheets. I have more i could share but i'll let you ponder about these ones first.

SR20DE
11.5:1 comp
Solid lifter setup/ Jun 280 cams
custom 4-1 header
Standalone
head work

This dyno show's the usual gains in Power and powerband shift from cam gear settings. This is a big cam DE motor so the power gains in the Mid RPM range are huge from tuning the cam gears. If you notice the gains above 6500rpm are minimal by advancing the intake cam and above 7700rpm leaving the intake cam at "0" actually starts to make more power. As you can also see going to the blue line, Retarding the Exhaust cam makes power everywhere in the RPM band and about 10whp from 5000rpm+. This was actually a very good street setup.

GREEN- Cams at "0,0"
RED- Cams at "+6,0"
BLUE- Cams at "+6,-4"



This next one is comparing a built 2.0L VET setup.
9.7:1 compression
35/30mm valves
Fully ported head
Jun springs/retainers
SR16VE cams ( std)
Cut open, fully ported N1 manifold/ T/B
T67/T4 .68 divided turbine housing, STG5 wheel
Divided turbo manifold
4" down pipe/ exhaust
Apex Power FC management

13-14psi

I have built 2 setups like this one, but this one was the better one of the 2. This motor was built 3 years ago and is still running today. This motor also was dyno'd again at another shop and had more tweaking done to it and made a little more power, about 20whp more at the same boost. This engine makes power to 10,000rpm before HP falls off. This engine was never built for super high boost, 1 bar normally and 18-20 here and there but the clutch setup could not hold the power.

This is showing the power differences in adjusting cam gears on the dyno. As you can see the BLUE really made more power down low and actually spooled the turbo faster than any other cam gear settings. Then the RED run i went -10 on the intake cam and it lost power everywhere in boost. Now that is the one with the least amount of overlap. The GREEN run is a great run. sure it made a little less low end and spooled the turbo a little slower, but it had the best overal power band. Not shown on this sheet, the +5,0 Blue run really fell on its face at about 8000rpm and was almost 100whp behind the Green run.

BLUE- +5, 0
RED- +5, -10
GREEN- 0, -4



This next sheet is just a comparison between the +5, -10 runs (BLUE/RED) and the +0, -4 runs (GREEN/PURPLE)

Just overlaying 2 of each runs back to back here. as you can see the one with LESS OVERLAP MAKES THE LEAST POWER HERE and the higher you rev the engine, the greater the power difference is.

BLUE/RED +5, -10
GREEN/PURPLE +0, -4



This sheet is comparing the Previous VET at 13-14 ( say 14psi) to a DET setup with a T3/T4 60-1 turbo and 2 different turbine housings. S4 cams, JWT ECU 3" exhaust Tubular manifold.

GREEN- VET setup, 14psi
RED- .63 housing, 21psi
BLUE- .82 housing, 16psi



Now here is the GT3071R turbo comparisons. I have 2 sheets to compare. I would put all 3 setups on one sheet but it gets harder to read. These are all RWD setups so the same "setup" in a FWD should yield a bit more power.

BLUE
S14 RWD DET (NVCS removed)
10:1 compression
272, 12.5mm lift cams
Ported head, stock valves
stock intake manifold, 60mm T/B
small diameter tubular divided turbo manifold
GT3071R T3 .82 divided turbine housing
FMIC 2" hotside, 2.25-2.5" cold side piping

20psi

RED
RWD S13
Greddy Intake manifold
264, 11.5mm cams
Tubular top mount
GT3071R .63 T3 turbo

20psi

As you can see the Divided housing sure can spool much much faster with the right parts. Both of these motors have had the cam gears tuned for optimal power. the Owner of the "red" dyno chart did not want his motor rev'd out any higher because he had miss shifted and broken rocker arms several times so he is scared to rev it higher. Also, to give an idea of how fast that divided housing setup spools, you can see that WOT was applied at 2600rpm.

I would really love to see this turbo setup on a VET build one day. If i had time and a car to put it in, I may actually do this one. A lower reving ( 8000rpm by lower) setup with full boost between 4000-4500rpm.



Lastly here is the same Divided GT3071R run compared to a GT3071R on the same motor a year earlier ( 2 years ago now).

RED
Same Divided setup as above

20psi

BLUE
S14 motor WITH NVCS
264 12.0mm cams
Silkroad turbo manifold
GT3071R .86
Ported head
Same FMIC setup as above

22psi



Enjoy!

-Ted