Thread: 3pc front ends for B13 & B14

well 24.5 to 25 isnt much better. Most people are running the same times with both of those tires. Some prefer the 24.5's some the 25's. Its not much more traction in comparison to each other. They also limit the width to 9" wide which the 25's are just below that at 8.7" and the 24.5's come in a 9" wide. So they pretty much equal out each other. I know the last couple events ive seen posted up on honda-tech have all allowed 25" X9" tire max in the true street or sfwd classes.

We are talking outlaw tires which limit to a 26X10" wide I believe. Thats a big step up over a 25X8.7

Most people use the 25's over the 24.5's for gearing purposes. Some are trapping right at the end of 4th and use the tad bit taller slick for that extra 4-5mph they can pick up in gearing. Thats why i chose a 25" tire. If all goes well I should be trapping at the end of 4th gear 9500 rpm.

We will see what happens as events get posted to see if the tire sizes continue to allow 25's

could you please tell me where you have seen 25" tire allowed in an event...im building my car around the 67mm rules because it seems to be where the most competition for the backyard gearhead builder, and not where you need to have a huge well known shop and large sponsors backing you to be able to compete

NSCRA Rules

Race Format: Quick 16 field, Pro ladder, Heads-up, (.400) Pro tree, No breakout. 1/4 mile Drag Racing.General: All vehicles and Drivers must comply with NHRA / IHRA / NSCRA safety rules and regulations. Engine catch pan or diaper is not required, but recommended. Chassis certification and Driver licensing must be completed prior to event. NSCRA rules are subject to change based on the National Sport Compact Racing Association's commitment and dedication to competitive racing for every enthusiast.Body: Import or domestic compact car bodies allowed. Doors must open and close from inside and outside the vehicle. Lightweight components are limited to hood, front fenders, decklid, hatches, sunroofs, wings, ground effects, and bumpers only. Roof, Quarter panels, and doors must remain steel. Widened front fenders are permitted on FWD cars for remainder of 2010 season (widened front fenders will not be allowed in 2011). One-piece front ends are not permitted. No body parts may be removed during competition.Chassis: All cars must retain complete stock chassis, floorboard, firewall, and frame rails. Notching of chassis for clearance is permitted.Suspension: All cars must utilize stock front and rear suspension and mounts (ladder bars and four links are prohibited). Wheelie bars are prohibited on all cars. Aftermarket front and rear control arms, struts, shocks, and sub-frame connectors are permitted.Street Equipment: Headlights and brake lights are required (one headlight may be removed for induction).Windows: All windows must be OEM glass. All windows must be functional, and roll up and down.Interior: Stock dashboard and full interior from front seats forward is required (both front seats are required). Aftermarket seats, gauges, and interior are permitted. Dashboard must be OEM stock (vents, clusters, radio, etc may be removed but drivers encouraged to use block-off panels in their place).Exhaust: Muffler(s) are required. Exhaust must exit underneath the car.Electronics: Two-steps, data loggers, aftermarket ECU’s, and engine management systems are allowed.Driveline: Open to FWD, RWD, and AWD cars. IRS conversions to straight axle are prohibited.Transmission: Automatic transmission must be of same manufacturer as engine used in vehicle with OEM case (aftermarket internals are permitted). Trans-brakes are prohibited. FWD and AWD cars with manual transmission must be clutch assisted and utilize OEM case only (aftermarket internals are permitted). RWD cars with manual transmission may utilize OEM transmission or a non-sequential, H-pattern aftermarket transmission (weight penalty for aftermarket transmission, see below). Sequential transmissions are prohibited. Aftermarket bell housings, axles, gears, spools, and differentials are permitted.Clutch / Shifter: The use of slider, adjustable, or any “Slipper style” clutch prohibited. Two discs maximum. Clutch must be manually operated by driver’s foot. Shifter must be H-pattern. Strain gauges are not permitted. Air shifters and electric shifters are prohibited.Engine: Only OEM 4-cylinder, 6-cylinder, and 2-rotor engines are permitted. Any internal engine modifications are permitted. Engine must be of automotive import origin or offered as OEM in compact cars sold in North America. Motor swaps of same manufacturer or different manufacturers are allowed as long as they meet weight requirements. Aftermarket blocks are prohibited.Induction: Any style intake is permitted. EFI or carburetors are permitted.Power Adders: Turbochargers, Superchargers, or Nitrous Oxide Systems is permitted (only one power adder is permitted). Turbochargers are measured at the inducer wheel diameter at the point where the leading edge of the compressor wheel meets the inlet housing. If nitrous oxide is not permitted for your combination, then nitrous bottles and solenoids must be removed from car and nitrous nozzles must be capped.Intercooling: Air intercoolers only are permitted. Water injection is permitted. Methanol injection is prohibited. REVISED 2-5-10Fuel: Gasoline and E-85 permitted, Alcohol is prohibited. Aftermarket fuel cells are permitted, but must be mounted in rear of vehicle. REVISED 1-26-10Tires: All tires are checked by sidewall designationFWD cars: Maximum size slick or bias ply tire is 24.5” x 9.5” or any size DOT radial tire is permitted.RWD cars: Maximum size slick or bias ply tire is 26.0” x 11.5” or any size DOT radial tire is permitted.AWD cars: Slicks or bias ply tires are prohibited, DOT Radial tires on wheels 17 inch or smaller must be in a 225, 235, or 245 series tire. DOT Radial tires on wheels 18 inch or larger may be any series tire. REVISED 2-11-10Minimum Weights: All minimum weights include the driver. REVISED 1-26-10 Race Format: Quick 16 field, Pro ladder, Heads-up, (.400) Pro tree, No breakout. 1/4 mile Drag Racing.

General: All vehicles and Drivers must comply with NHRA / IHRA / NSCRA safety rules and regulations. Engine catch pan or diaper is not required, but recommended. Chassis certification and Driver licensing must be completed prior to event. NSCRA rules are subject to change based on the National Sport Compact Racing Association's commitment and dedication to competitive racing for every enthusiast.

Body: Import or domestic compact car bodies allowed. Doors must open and close from inside and outside the vehicle. Lightweight components are limited to hood, front fenders, decklid, hatches, sunroofs, wings, ground effects, and bumpers only. Roof, Quarter panels, and doors must remain steel. Widened front fenders are permitted on FWD cars. One-piece front ends are not permitted. No body parts may be removed during competition.

Chassis: All cars must retain complete stock chassis, floorboard, firewall, and frame rails. Notching of chassis for clearance is permitted.

Suspension: All cars must utilize stock front and rear suspension and mounts (ladder bars and four links are prohibited). Wheelie bars are prohibited on all cars. Aftermarket front and rear control arms, struts, shocks, and sub-frame connectors are permitted.

Street Equipment: Headlights and brake lights are required (one headlight may be removed for induction).
Windows: All windows must be OEM glass. All windows must be functional, and roll up and down.

Interior: Stock dashboard and full interior from front seats forward is required (both front seats are required). Aftermarket seats, gauges, and interior are permitted. Dashboard must be OEM stock (vents, clusters, radio, etc may be removed but drivers encouraged to use block-off panels in their place).

Exhaust: Muffler(s) are required. Exhaust must exit underneath the car.

Electronics: Two-steps, data loggers, aftermarket ECU’s, and engine management systems are allowed.

Driveline: Open to FWD, RWD, and AWD cars. IRS conversions to straight axle are prohibited.

Transmission: Automatic transmission must be of same manufacturer as engine used in vehicle with OEM case (aftermarket internals are permitted). Trans-brakes are prohibited. FWD and AWD cars with manual transmission must be clutch assisted and utilize OEM case only (aftermarket internals are permitted). RWD cars with manual transmission may utilize OEM transmission or a non-sequential, H-pattern aftermarket transmission (weight penalty for aftermarket transmission, see below). Sequential transmissions are prohibited. Aftermarket bell housings, axles, gears, spools, and differentials are permitted.
Clutch / Shifter: The use of slider, adjustable, or any “Slipper style” clutch prohibited. Two discs maximum. Clutch must be manually operated by driver’s foot. Shifter must be H-pattern. Strain gauges are not permitted. Air shifters and electric shifters are prohibited.

Engine: Only OEM 4-cylinder, 6-cylinder, and 2-rotor engines are permitted. Any internal engine modifications are permitted. Engine must be of automotive import origin or offered as OEM in compact cars sold in North America. Motor swaps of same manufacturer or different manufacturers are allowed as long as they meet weight requirements. Aftermarket blocks are prohibited.

Induction: Any style intake is permitted. EFI or carburetors are permitted.

Power Adders: Turbochargers, Superchargers, or Nitrous Oxide Systems is permitted (only one power adder is permitted). Turbochargers are measured at the inducer wheel diameter at the point where the leading edge of the compressor wheel meets the inlet housing. If nitrous oxide is not permitted for your combination, then nitrous bottles and solenoids must be removed from car and nitrous nozzles must be capped.

Intercooling: Air intercoolers only are permitted. Water injection is permitted. Methanol injection is prohibited. REVISED 2-5-10

Fuel: Gasoline and E-85 permitted, Alcohol is prohibited. Aftermarket fuel cells are permitted, but must be mounted in rear of vehicle. REVISED 1-26-10

Tires: All tires are checked by sidewall designation FWD cars: Maximum size slick or bias ply tire is 24.5” x 9.5” or any size DOT radial tire is permitted. RWD cars: Maximum size slick or bias ply tire is 26.0” x 11.5” or any size DOT radial tire is permitted. AWD cars: Slicks or bias ply tires are prohibited, DOT Radial tires on wheels 17 inch or smaller must be in a 225, 235, or 245 series tire. DOT Radial tires on wheels 18 inch or larger may be any series tire. REVISED 2-11-10

Minimum Weights: All minimum weights include the driver. REVISED 1-26-10

Engine
Driveline
Maximum Turbocharger
Minimum Weight

2-rotor
RWD
72.9 mm single
58.9 mm twins
2700 lbs

4-cylinder
FWD
67.9 mm
2400 lbs

4-cylinder
RWD
67.9 mm
2700 lbs

4-cylinder
AWD
67.9 mm
2900 lbs

6-cylinder
FWD
67.9 mm
2400 lbs

6-cylinder
RWD Manual
72.9 mm single
58.9 mm twins
3200 lbs

6-cylinder
RWD Auto
72.9 mm single
58.9 mm twins
3300 lbs

6-cylinder
AWD
72.9 mm single
58.9 mm twins
3200 lbs


* Add 50 lbs. for FWD cars with automatic transmission
* Add 100 lbs. for RWD cars with non-sequential H-pattern aftermarket transmission
* Deduct 100 lbs. for SOHC cars
* Deduct 200 lbs. for cars powered by nitrous only
* Deduct 150 lbs. for 4-cylinder FWD cars with 63.0 or smaller turbo

Payouts*: $1500 Full payout
*Payouts based on number of entries.

14-16 cars: Full payout. Winner/Runner-up/Semi.
5-13 cars: 75% of payout. Winner/Runner-up/Semi.
2-4 cars: 50% of payout. Winner/Runner-up only.
1 car: Trophy only.

Winner - $800 Full Payout
75% - $600
50%-$400

Runner-Up - $500 Full Payout
75% - $375
50%-$250

Semi 1 - $100 Full Payout
75% - $75

Semi 2 - $100 Full Payout
75% - $75

POINTS
16 Car Ladder
Winner - 100
Runner-up - 80
Semi - 60
Quarter - 40
First round - 20
For qualifying - 10
Qualifier
#1 - 8 points
#2 - 7 points
#3 - 6 points
#4 - 5 points
#5 and #6 - 4 points
#7 and #8 - 3 points
#9-12 - 2 points
#13-16- 1 point
Points are award to driver, not car. Points are not transferable from one class to another.

IFO

FORCED INDUCTION SPORT presented by Fusionworks Racing

PAYOUTS - $300 - Must have 8 qualifiers for full payout. Less than eight qualifiers will receive half the normal payout. Qualifiers must run 13.99 and faster.

Winner - $300
R/U - $100
Semi 1 - $50 - if enough cars for a Quick 16
Semi 2 - $50 - if enough cars for a Quick 16

CLASS SUMMARY
Heads-Up, Pro-tree (.400) class for F/R/AWD street/daily driven import/sport compact vehicles with full interior, exhaust, and current tags/registration. Power adders allowed. Three qualifying passes permitted.

BODY
Import or domestic compact car bodies allowed. Current tags and registration required. One piece and widened front ends prohibited. Bumpers can not be removed. No cutting allowed for weight reduction or wheel clearance purposes. All tail lights and head lights required.

INTERIOR
Doors must open and close from inside and outside the vehicle. No center drive configurations. All seats (front and back), door panels, dash, and carpet (front and back) must remain inside vehicle. No lexan allowed. No cutting allowed for weight reduction.

CHASSIS AND SUSPENSION
Full tube chassis prohibited. No center-drive systems. Wheelie bars are prohibited.

ENGINE
4 and 6 cylinder 2 or 3 rotory import engines allowed. 8, 10, or 12 cylinders must be naturally aspirated. Domestic compact cars limited to 4 cylinder. No air-cooled engines allowed. Motor swaps allowed as long as stays within same manufacturer.

POWER ADDERS
Turbochargers, Superchargers, and Nitrous Oxide Systems permitted in any combination.

DRIVETRAIN AND TRANSMISSION
FWD, AWD, or RWD allowed. Stock driveline configuration must remain. Straight axles prohibited.

EXHAUST
Open exhaust prohibited. Excessively loud exhaust prohibited (determined at IFO tech's discretion).

TIRES
Slicks permitted for FWD only (limit 24.5 x 9.5). Any DOT approved tires required for AWD and RWD vehicles.

For example the last two events to take place on the east coast all sponsored events btw they had the rules for the true street/sfwd class as 67mm turbo and up to a 25X9" tire. Again I think it really comes down to the events and who makes the rules. For the most part they try to follow the sfwd rules but some are modified and can be at the people throwing the events discression. I think alot of the events are now counting a 25" tire as a smaller tire and in my opinion it is. Like i said the sfwd rules are 24.5X9 tire max not much off from a 25X8.7

Again some events may still stick to the sfwd rules on the 24.5" tire so it really depends. If you are worried about it just go with a 24.5X9 and call it good. I picked up the 25's cheap and they were basicly new. Didnt feel like spending double on a set of new slicks when I wasnt getting out enough anyways.

I know for all motor street they go max of a 23" tire i believe and on all motor pro they do a 24.5X9 as well.

Big tire to me is 26" and above. But hell even a lot of the outlaw guys are running 8's on a 24.5 or 25" tire. So yeah its a little far fetched for us that back yard build. I plan on having my own shop one day but even then Im not gonna fall into the sponsors stuff. I like building things on my own and doing all the work myself. I think if I can get the car to run consistent mid 9's it will still be competitive in the sfwd and some of the turbo pro classes. I doubt i will make weight for the sfwd class as i believe its gotta be 2300 lbs or heavier or something along those lines. Im way way under that. So ill be left with competing in the turbo pro or outlaw classes, turbo pro should be competitive as its not quite the outlaw class but above the sfwd class. We will see when I get the car done and tested where it would best be competitive at.

another rule you may have to look at is how you can't modify your front radiator support...also have to have all glass, b pillar forward interior

The radiator saport can be modified just not removed.
For example t1

And Howard from CBC engine dynamics

You just have to have a complete sapport.

Which i do. Im not doing lexan glass either. So should be good on that aspect. Again all events are different and some try to stick to the set rules of the class and some modify them. it all depends on what they think will be competitive for each classes.

I should be good. Once i get some initial testing done after dyno tuning it and as long as it runs what it should its getting a full 8 point chromoly cage and chute. The rest of the stuff will is already taken care of.

A lot of the SFWD classes that are at the events that ive seen as of lately dont allow you to even have your car gutted. So in events like that. Im already out. hahaha. Has to have carpet seats and dash. Im leaving the dash but have no carpet and I can have a passenger seat but probably not going to during testing and stuff. Again its gonna require me setting up the car to meet the requirements of different races. Makes it difficult when they change stuff all the time. lol

SfWD and 67mm class specify that radiator support has to remain stock and unaltered, no tubular front end chassis mods
also the 2 cars you posted are outlaw cars, cant run a forward facing or water to air in 67mm or SFWD, class just sayin

Yes that is true but when miller runs sfwd trim he is still forward facing manifold. But the rules say I will look for it the saport cannot be modified more than 2 inches.

Either way I have a plate that covers and connects both sides of my radiator support So I doubt its something they are gonna look too seriously at. If not then ill just have to run another class. But ive seen soo many cars running in those classes that have cut out radiator supports. Stupid civics and their really long engine bays and really nicely shaped supports to fit large turbos and manifolds without cutting. ugh. lol.

Either way, im keeping all my glass. I dont know what the rules say about having CF doors but im getting a pair of those when they are finished but retaining the roll up and down glass and all hardware so that it opens from the outside and inside just like stock. If the support becomes an issue ill just buy another from a yard and weld it into place being thats where i cut it was on the weld point anyways. Then paint it to match and nobody will notice a difference. Might have to make a small notch in it to clear the turbo but not much if any at all.

Again its something ill have to find out when I get out there. The cage and all will get certified and ill get my nhra license as well. Once the chassis is certified the track really and officials really shouldnt give you any problems. Just have to get it recertified every two years i believe. No biggie. Gonna play it by ear as the rules change constantly and change depending on the event.