Thread: P10 springs

I went with 9K front and 7K rear just to spice things up. Not sure when I will get them installed though. Probably not until next spring, but I have a few other things to do on the car so I might try and plan something on my next break from school.

I don't run a front sway bar. Stiffer springs in front may compound the push. Stiffer springs in the rear will help the car turn. A little toe-in the rear will help turn in.

I wanted to get rid of a little bit of body roll without sacrificing ride quality too much, so I decided to go up in the front and balance it out by increasing more in the rear. I am hoping overall it will rotate a little better.

I'll add on here instead of starting a new thread. I am going in for an alignment tomorrow. What should I shoot for on camber? I am thinking -1* camber front and rear, 0 toe front, and maybe a touch of toe out in the rear. I want a street setup that will not cause excessive tire wear, but something that is still fun to drive. I went with Nito NT05 tires in 205/50/15 on stock P11 wheels. On the old Kuma Ecstas, I had quite a bit of front push. I took an unkown amount of camber out last night, 180* rotation of one upper Superpro bushing. This put the total length close to stock, I will dial it back to center before going in for the alignment but I wanted to see what it would handle like with the camber out. But who knows what else changed. Any insight that might help would be appreciated.

Setup:
9K front, 7K rear AMR coilovers
stock front anti-sway bar, addco rear anti-sway bar
poly bushings all around, superpro caster bushing on front lower control arms
rod end rear lower control arms

My B13 is also going in for an alignment this week, so I've been milling this over too...

Here are my thoughts... If you're going to be driving spiritedly on the street and are honest with yourself that you won't see much track time then I would aim for a stock alignment in the rear. I honestly don't know what those specs are, but they are close to -1° camber, and a couple degrees of toe in, or maybe 1/8th inch of toe in depending on how it's measured. You want the rear to be settled and predictable with minimal tire wear, but nothing aggressive in either direction.
For the front, go with -2° or -2.5° or -3° camber and zero toe. This will get you some desperately needed grip up front, while keeping tire wear sane, and helping a little with turn-in. The car will be a little darty and playful with zero toe, but as long as you're not doing major daily or highway work you'll enjoy it.

If you're aiming for a more daily or highway setup, let us know.

If you're going to do more than one or two track days a year and/or want to address serious issues you won't really see on the street, you'll want to go more aggressive, but let us know and we can discuss that too.

Personally, I've never been happier than when the rear is setup to the aggressive end of the stock recommendations. And then the front gets sorted as needed, which IMO is almost never right, but the P10 no doubt does a better job here than my B13.

Max negative camber you can get up front. The superpro camber poly bushings allow a small amount of adjustment. Get the Cusco Front Upper Control Arms and insert the SuperPro into them and it would be the maximum static negative camber you could get on this car without doing more crazy things. Such as custom upper control arms. The Cusco units are 10cm shorter and will gain more static negative camber by default.. then the SUperPro UCA bushings will allow more negative camber. Gain as much - camber as you can.

Vadim found nicer bearings and he has retrofit his Cusco UCA with them already and I am in the middle of doing so myself.

Vadim also changed the pickup point of the inner part of the Upper Control arm which was Charles approved and is certainly mathematically sound as to a yes in the right direction towards acquiring more grip and gaining more static negative camber with the front multi-link suspension.

If the front end was pushing last time, you need focus on the rear end. That will improve your grip overall with the car. We can improve upon what you have but if you wish to change next to nothing, focus on the rear end.

Zero toe all around unless you want something specific done towards catering the tendencies of the car for you. Do you like to induce off throttle oversteer to cause you to control your slide with the steering wheel? Do you like a brake check to toss the rear end, lots of specifics for a driver can dictate what YOUR numbers will ultimate be best for.

A lot of factory cars now run negative 1.25 to 2.25 in the front from factory. Tires be damn, let the car grip!

http://thisguyracing.com/alignspecs.htm

Thanks for the replies. I have never really had a set of sticky tires on this car, and now with the new springs it seems to be better than it has in the past.

The alignment I had done last year was never right and the tires were getting old so not as much grip.

I put the outer bushing in the full negative camber position and I will try to see what we can get it to on the rack. I am going to a different shop, one that specializes in alignments only so I might tap him for some insight.

I have always had 0 toe all around and rear camber at -1*, it has never really bothered me. Front started at -1.5*, then I went to -1.75*. I might get in a track day or two, but not betting on that so a moderate to aggressive street setup will be fine.

Should I try 1/8" toe out in the rear as well?

One other thing to try to help get rear to rotate more is to run much higher tire pressures in the rear. Start off at 40-44psi in rear and 32-34psi in front. I had to resort to this trick at the Convention to get the B13 to rotate some more after playing around with damper settings.

If you want to be spooked on high-speed sweepers and aggressive lift-throttle oversteer. Sure.
Personally, it made everything worse for me. I don't advocate making one side of the car (the rear) worse to correct the other side (the front). Instead, I'd foxus on making the front better itself if you have a problem in the front.

Under decel the car really pushes but the rear end rotates the more throttle you give it. It really pulls around once you are on it and it transitions smooth and predictably. The new springs really helped smooth the weight transfer. Maybe next year I will try 8K front, it is really stiff now so I think I could give a little of that up to get the rear to rotate more.