Thread: Multi-Link vs Super Strut

You are correct, my bad on that because I felt like having two exact threads was redundant, I see your point and have changed the first first post to be the same exact as the other one.

I think what was irking me more was the multi-link vs strut discussion in a thread that I was trying to keep strut vs strut.

I'm also upset at the constant multi-link = best ever suspension. I REALLY want it to be that, I bought the P11 thinking it would be that. But I sadly realized that multi-link did not at all fix the other issues of the chassis. This is why I now argue for struts too, because a well implemented strut will perform pretty damn well (BMW's, Subaru's, Civics, etc. all demonstrate that).

I've been wanting to to convert my P11 to front Struts simply because the system is much simpler and is easier to modify. It's much easier to gain static negative camber, restore roll center, can support wider tires, and can support a smaller turning circle steering racks without tire to suspension bind.

I was pretty sold on doing the conversion until I discovered the Ford Revoknuckle (super strut) setup. This design looks like a halfway point to the Multi-link design that G20's use. They have the knuckle do the rotating instead of the whole strut assembly, which helps reduce the scrub radiaus and reduce torque steer.

I will say seeing the benefits of revo-knuckle does make me want to stick with Multi-Link more, because FWD needs all traction it can get. Static negative camber is still an issue since stiffer springs makes the multi-link not gain it's negative camber much compared to the stock soft springs. Roll center is still an issue too.

Please provide an example where I or anyone else said that the G20 Multi-Link is the best in the two newly created threads.

check out an s2000 front multilink
you can adjust toe (stock), caster (stock), camber (requires aftermarket balljoint), bumpsteer (requires aftermarket plate), and roll centre (requires aftermarket balljoint)

Your pulsar does a ton better then my P11 would be like, but about the same as what my B15 would be like. Your coarse is MUCH faster then our typical courses. We are restricted to a government parking lot which is probably 1/2 the size of your track. Thus our courses tend to be very technical and low speed. This is why I am arguing against the multi-link, granted it's P11's fault, though I'm not sure P10 would be any better with it's still rather big wheel base (though similar to my old B15's).

Running even 205 tires the P11 just smokes them, na or turbo. I'm gonna probably run 225's in 17's, but would love to run even bigger. My friend with a newer Civic would run 235's and even on Starspecs it handled very well.

Another thing that really kills the P11 is the beam, it's worse then on the B15 too. B15 beam was more centered (had less beam shift) and had more travel in the scott-russel link. Goal is to convert to panhard on p11 after racing it this year. Hopefully with a lower rear roll center it can finally stop overloading even the negative camber gaining multi-link suspension.


Some pics for comparison sake

Bone stock P11 on 100k mile suspension:


Pretty modified (rear swaybar, bilsteins and one of the drop in springs)



Multi-link or not the car is a big. Though I do wonder how much worse it would be with struts, probably would have to run -2 to -3 camber static.



That's really cool, wish our cars had that kind of support. I got toe and caster covered though, just not camber or bumpsteer.

i dont consider your setup to be heavily modified, but thats a matter of opinion, and likely not setup correctly for autocross
car setup i think is partly one issue and i would say driving technique judging your distance from the cone

anyways here's a bone stock s2000 vs my pulsar on the same course, half pad, so its half the size we normally race on , its slower tigther and more technical
you can easily see how the multilink is superior, he is quicker than me in a stock s2000, take notice in the low speed tight sections, the s2000 is nearly equivalent in weight

Oh I 100% agree with you, that's when I still tried to keep the P11 daily comfortable yet be an autocross car. I learned it's best just to have a third car, which is why I bought and raced the B15 for a while. I got rid of it due to having 5 cars and am now switching the gears to make the P11 more autocross friendly now.

Those pictures are with either B&G's or Tein drop in springs and Bilstein shocks, front and rear tower bars, rear swaybar, ES rear beam bushings, and ES LCA rear bushings. See I thought the multi-link suspension would be sufficient enough to make for a decent weekend warrior, but that's where I was wrong. Full coilovers with 500lbs+ spring rates is due to control the body roll majorly. Caster bushings going in, and probably will have to figure something out with static negative camber (painful to do as usual). Also classing with SCCA is a pain even simple things really put you out of class. Even with those simple mods the tech crew would look at me like I overmooded the damn thing, but the car sucked so badly bone stock, you have to throw parts at it (performance and handling)


Don't get me wrong, I know multi-link and double wishbone is better suspension designs, I know that older civics and S2000's will handle great. My issues come strictly from the P11. I wish someone local had a P10, heck I bet it handles better then a modded p11 bone stock.

They do, a whole lot better.

That's what I figured myself. P11's feel fine on the street, even on mountains, but when you start pushing them to the limit they really pig out.

Hmm wheel base on P10's is only 2" less then P11, for some reason I thought it was more like 5" and B15 .6" less then P10. Makes me curious on how well a P10 would do on the typical AutoX course that they use here. You should come down and we should race back to back

All I would interested in is how fast cars are entering and exiting turns. Overall time would be for my personal use only. Unless I had someone else better skilled than me drive my own car, then I could reference his time against mine. Otherwise, pointless to compares raw times.