Thread: Multi-Link vs Super Strut

Suspension setup is key for autox as is driving technique. Too many factors into why the wrx drivers r faster in your area. But I can say that without Hoosiers and the gobs of torque it has it would be in trouble

Comparing a fwd car made to be an econo, luxo sedan to a awd car designed to be a sporty WOT car in autocross? wow! Pick a better fight.
I don't know anyone that has ever thought the P11 was an awesome handling car for tight courses. It's best left to faster, more open courses in my opinion. You haven't tried a P10 autocrossing?
The ONLY thing I see beneficial in the suspension in the first post is that yes, it does reduce camber changes when turning. So will running less caster if you can get away with it. Scrub can be reduced in other ways.

This times a million. There is a reason Vadim is not having success with a P11 but he must find that reason himself because the truth is simply too difficult to accept it appears. Work on an Audi car and find out how much fun balljoints are all over the glorius Audi front drive suspension. All of this engineering involve a compromise, that is a reality that has to be accepted.

I will never see a strut on an F1 car, because they are not optimized for racing. They are to make stuff cheaper. I bet Mazda will never put a strut on their flagship Miata handler.
@Vadim if you have traction issues, get stickier tires and warmer weather.

this might not be representative,
but you can see the short comings of front strut (pulsar video is in cold weather couple degrees above freezing, civic video is about 70 degrees ambient, so grip levels are higher for the civic)
the front strut just rolls over on itself into positive camber when i want more negative camber. the civic gains negative camber the more it rolls this is a massive advantage.

pulsar gtir 2800lbs with me in it(weight has its issues too in this case and lack of tire) on gc dbl adjustables, 600/700lbs, torsen lsd, 2way nismo, toyo 195 r1r's

vs a well setup stc civic car with open diff, very light 2240lbs with me in it, thats basically fully built on koni 2812's 600/700lbs toyo 195 r1r's


found a video of the same event in my pulsar, driven by my friend in the same stc civic above, he's a very good driver, consistently 2-5 tenths quicker. he would have won packwood last year by a fair margin but coned all of his day 1 runs had a bad day hehe. you can see how much more speed it can carry through turns and it doesnt struggle as much mid corner where the negative camber gain helps the most

Thanks @nickr

Your actually reinforcing my point, I'm just so sick and tired of our guys thinking the multi-link is God sent and is the only answer to all freaking questions. To my next point, even though P11 has this unbeatable by anyone front suspension, it still sucks when you actually start racing it.

At the end of the day it doesn't really matter what suspension your car has if it handles great. If you can make McPherson struts handle great that's all that matters. Subaru makes up for front McPherson struts by using much more caster, upside down tie rods, lower sitting steering rack, AWD, etc. All of this is innovation that Nissan skipped out on, sure they spit out multi-link's on 2 US models, but on the rest they just gave up

Also Legacy is not a sporty WOT autocross sedan, it's an Econoluxury sedan too, if Nissan put a properly powered motor on the G20, it would have had similar success too.

I'm also a bit surprised at this negativity, our car suspensions (B chassis) is pretty crappy, look at Kojima's complaints at any of his build posts. Any innovation should be welcomed warmly to help our B Chassis put down traction, I personally wouldn't mind seeing EvoKnuckles for our cars. I hated my B15 with coilovers sucking at low speeds because the whole coilover had to turn, plus the noise ....

Not reinforcing your point at all, merely pointing out that you're missing the point. Polishing a turd is only going to get you a shiny turd, not a winning car. There are so many factors that make up a winning combination blaming one of them isn't going to cut it. Turn your statement around, "At the end of the day it doesn't really matter what suspension your car has if it handles great." It also doesn't matter if the rest of the setup isn't up to task. Think more and argue less.

Struts were invented to save money. That was the entire purpose of the invention of them. That is fact. This system looks like another band-aid over simply installing a proper suspension where the upper and lower links work together to decrease tire scrub, have an improved camber curve, and reduce toe scrub.

This "super strut "costs more money, involves more weight, and has more working parts to fail. It is a glorified strut with the small redeeming quality being that the system limits the harmful effects a strut causes more than the convention method.

Maybe next time the entire forum can be welcomed to enjoy the forum thread for discussion rather than have an moderator simply remove all posts to tailor the thread to his liking.



P.S. Focus ST does not have torque steer because the ECU applies the brakes to the wheel that is spinning more to have both front tires move forward at the same or similar pace.

Give me a few minutes, I'm actually creating a new thread and moving most of the posts there. This thread is Super Strut vs Strut, not Super Strut vs Unequal A arm suspensions (which is what your post made it be ).

To which we can reply

"This system is like a half way to a G20 multi-link" in your original response. You began that debate, sir. I offered to engage in a technical debate of why the conventional and super-strut system is weak and that was never taken up.