Thread: Multi-Link vs Super Strut

This thread is a branch from Super Struts vs Regular Struts. I wanted to move the Multi-link discussion into it's own thread to keep the other on topic of SuperStrut vs Strut only.

TIL Ford uses what's called a SuperStrut, which they claim is the main reason the Focus ST doesn't have torque steer. The biggest change seems to be knuckle rotates independently of the strut. This design looks like a halfway point to the Multi-link design that G20's use.

Car and Drive Source

This is nothing like a G20 multi-link. A strut will never be able to act how that G20 multi-link acts. That is simple geometry and zero emotion. It is part of the reason some folks like the G20 multi-link and the reason why some folks remove it and convert to a strut.

This is still a strut only with the reduced harmful strut characteristics and what are now added into the mix as more wear points, more weight, more cost, and more parts to break.

I didn't say it's 100% like G20 Multi-link. Both systems reduce the scrub radius, both systems help with torque steer. Sure it's still a strut, not the point, it's still cheaper and more compact.

What your basically saying give me Multi-link or bust, truth be Manufactures will always cut cost, thus I doubt you will ever see double wishbone or multi-link in budget cars like Focus, Sentra, Civic, etc. Thus knowing that would you rather have your Sentra old school torque steer prone struts or this newer updated system? I would side with the latter...

Plus it doesn't help motivate manufactures to go back to more complex systems when struts do more then well enough on BMW's, Subaru's, etc.

Struts were invented to save money, period. Yes they work and work well. They serve the purpose they were invented for well.

I said nothing above like you assumed, again.

When I see a strut on an F1 car, we can talk about the technical aspect you refuse to accept the reality of or you just want to argue I guess? This is not cheaper than a conventional strut system in initial costs nor do I believe in the long run for the end-user. Thus, this system seems like a gimmick to raise car prices and will not providing anything extra besides the new Federal equipment being forced onto everyone each year.

Believe it or not, some of us like our old cars. They have heart and soul. They were truly made by a true engineer and not a strict "save us money" engineer. Even as shitty as whatever anyone wants to say about a B13, the sum of the parts is what makes it awesome. Some of us do not mind if the car is more bumpy, transmit more road noise, or cause the passenger to grab the oh shit handle once or twice when traveling inside the car. It is ok to have different requirements, desires, and means to carry out what they want to do. Some of us do not mind revving to the moon for power. Some of us love that dirty turbo torque as well.

I am trying to digest how you are interpeting all this and how you are trying to talj to me but it seems like you want to assume and argue. Maybe I am wrong.

I have a 2007 Saturn Sky. There was no turbo option that year, this is one of the first of the line. Please stop picking on the fact that some of us prefer to drive our old cars. The Saturn Sky has four double wishbone all around, weighs in just over 2700 pounds, and cost just over $23k. Manufacturers are fully capable of producing a good car and the Miata is proof of the smashing hit manufacturers can accomplish and maintain.

Maybe others can chime in. Thoughts would be appreciated at this point by anyone.

I dont see the cost savings of doing the revo knuckle over multi link as you're adding complexity and more parts. It is a great idea if space is limited. But I'd take a good multi link over strut any day

For how magical multi-link's everyone makes them out to be, P11 G20's don't really perform up to snuff at all. I used to autocross my P11, spent a lot of time and money on suspension (tried just about all flavors of drop in springs) and they all sucked. The car still understeered to hell, turbo, NA VE, or even NA RR.

I thought the G20 was the big shiznit and would run circles around other cars (some place in OT you'll find my argument with Cliff about me thinking it was better then Subaru's), except time after time I would get my ass handed to me by other FWD cars. Even the newer Civic's with MacStruts would still own my G20 majorly. Heck I'll go as far as saying my 05 Legacy GT, with 500lbs more curb weight, McPherson strut fronts will outrun my G20 suspension stock for stock, heck I think it will even out run it if G20 has coilovers.

I'm humbled now though, I give respect where it's due. Subaru is able to take WRX's with front and rear struts and make them handle damn good, even though they all weigh 3300+lbs! I sold my B15 which handled really well, thus I'll see what my G20 does this season. Maybe full coilovers instead of drop in crap will be sufficient?

Suspension setup, alignment, weight, lsds all play a factor. I would argue that wrxs handle well. I can walk all over one with a 100hp ef civic and miata. The problem with the Subaru is the massive weight over the front wheels however the dccd helps that a lot. I can also toast a wrx and sti in my JDM gtir. Tires Suspension and alignment setup is key and weight.

Yet your GTiR still has struts... Reason I say WRX's handle well, they get some of the best lap times, the only cars that are usually faster are the super modded Miatas. Heck we even have a guy with an NA B13 SE-R, fully gutted, has ton of NA mods. It does well, but not as well as I would hope.

Are you talking track days or autocross. Turbo power makes a huge difference as well.. At autox I run 300hp with quite a lot of lag.. But I also run a lot of camber caster and toe out. And a lot of spring 600 700. And I've got a torsen LSD up front and a 2 way rear. But I weigh 600lbs less than the nearest wrx. U should b comparing cornering speed .. Not ultimate lap times. Power down a straight does wonders for lap times . the wrx will cook its tires long before that b13 ser or miata. It won't be able to do those lap times over n over

Autocross, don't have nearly as much track day experience, hence tempted to bring my Legacy and my G20 to trackday this year . Ha I cook my tires way before anyone else, turbo Sentra or G20 doesn't like to put power down.

Anyway thats all off topic. I will say my G20 does torque steer less, but it has just as many issues putting the power down as my B15 did. Though added 400lbs curb weight did help a little. Right now I'm on my stock G20 suspension and it's spin city, but surprisingly not too bad of torque steer, but I do also have stiff LCA rear bushings.