Thread: How many interested in a new high end coil over at a good price?

Well, then you tell me what is "high end"?

Or are you telling me that a set of $20,000 Ohlins 4-way suspension that were design for a BTCC S2000 class race car will make a road car corner really well and be comfortable as well?

As I have said before, race suspension for race car.
Road suspension for road car…

Race suspension on a road car equal dangerous vehicle dynamic.

Jerrick

I'm not telling you. Anyone I've ever read about who purchased a Moton or Ohlin (or similar) setup has told me as much. I'm just the messenger?

So what is classify high end and why? I am interested how your "rate" the suspensions brand / model.

I only use Bilstein because I thought it's a known name that will easier to relate to.
I can easily change the brands to Ohlins, Moton, Quantum, or Penske… and it won't change the result.

Race suspension for race car, road suspension for road car.
Race suspensions on a road car will not be safe or comfortable.
That isn't an opinion, it is simple mathematic based on vehicle dynamic that goes back to the 1960's.
Every vehicle dynamic engineer will know this, and there are very specific defined boundary of what is safe and what is not.

That is why when you say no one with high-end "race" setup ever say their suspension is uncomfortable or horrible on a road car.
That sentence doesn't really make any sense to me, something is wrong there.

As I said before, I am here because I want to know a little more about what the community think and all of your opinion are appreciated.
All of your feedback will help us define a better presentation to the community.
As I have said, I think for now a damper dyno is on the card, we just got to get time to make a easy to read and colourful one.

Jerrick

Penske Shocks / HONDA S2000

a buddy of mine who's a massively good driver has these on 1000lb rates on his CR

We went to attend the packwood solo national tour through the mountain pass which is full of potholes, bumps, cracks.

It was incredibly smooth and comfortable almost like driving a nice plush bmw

The previous year when i went down on my bc racing struts, i vowed to never drive on that road again on the bc's.

i'd also rate these highly
KONI: 2812 MKII series
and these
ScienceofSpeed > products
and these
http://www.ohlinsusa.com/road-track-tech
and ast's double adjustable line

I have a legitimate question: With the amount of adjustment (what, 32 way or whatever it is??) how much cross talk between rebound and bound is there?? Also, depending on what customers want, how much doe sthe "knee" point change in your valving??

Just for clarity, I like this little part. Back into lurk mode.

P.S. Lots of good names here courtesy of @wnwright

http://www.vorshlag.com/shocks.php

Just a little backstory for the masses

Vorshlag bought out AST and Moton NA (if my memory serves me correct). However, the ASts have been having a good bit of problems in the motosport environment to say the least.

Also, Moton had $$$ trouble several years ago and were bought out by AST (AST Holland buys out Moton Holland).
There's ALOT that goes on behind the scenes that the lower end manufacturers have no clue of . not sure how moton is doing at this point, but the older systems (both AST and Moton) were pretty darned good on most chassis they were on!

x2, pretty familiar with that set up! lol

Oh another example..
you can make stock springs feel firmer or harsher and handle better than a car with 'coilovers' if u choose to with valving, which my codriver and i have done with 2812's

The car can also feel completely undrivable like you're running over a cobble stone road if you want to
http://i60.tinypic.com/34q0hs5.jpg a slipping clutch and slipping alignment bolt kept me out of 1st by 7 tenths over 2 days


Appreciate the effort that you're trying to provide a good product, but being open works better than being secretive.

What is the design behind how the pistons and related items work?
koni for example goes into it in this document http://www.koni.com/fileadmin/user_upload/global/Media/Downloads/distributor_downloads/New_structure/30_Product_Information_Technical_PI/Technical_Manual_28-series_v5.2.2.pdf

Right, that is quite a few questions so lets cover some "coming soon" first.

1. Dyno chart is on the menu, I do think we do need to show something.
Mind you I haven't seen dyno provided by a lot of the names above, but I guess this world isn't fair when you are a new brand.

2. GT1 Piston design and feature.
We will be making some CG render of the GT1 piston as it was design from scratch on Solidworks.
We will be making some interesting looking marketing material because there are a lot of feature that gone into this piston.


The thing is you can do a lot even with a very standard piston if you know what you are doing.
Using Digressive shim stacks or a Progressive shims stack with different shim thickness all can yield a curve that "blow off" at where you want it to in order to create the damping characteristic you want.

What it doesn't change is the springs rate which is why I say race setup really shouldn't get on the road.
You need to keep those wheel frequency sensible for a road car, it isn't for the bumps or pot holes, it is for the bumps in the rain when you get into a slide…
You need traction when the suspension unload and a high wheel frequency isn't going to give you that…
That isn't safe and safety is the main concern for any suspension designer.

This is also where the 2-way / 3-way suspension comes in.
They are great, we build 3-way for race car ourself because it is necessary to control the high speed / low speed compression while independently keeping the rebound at 100% critical (Some 3-way suspension isn't actually independent, the bump actually affect the rebound. Some of the older Ohlins was like that just so you know. )

However, this require a lot of knowledge as well as a damper dyno to setup correct, something that most user do not have access to.
Which is why we stick with the 1-way design on the GT1 (hence the name), because we want this to be a easily adjustable suspension and the bump / rebound ratio will always be sensible.
The idea is pretty much same as the Ohlins DFV, something you can use on the street and turn a knob to go on track.
You can do very well with a 3-way if you know what you are adjusting, but you can also go very wrong if you don't know what you are doing.

We are well in the known with AST.
Actually, a few racing series had come to us and ask us to replace AST as a supplier for their racing series because AST simply wasn't building the suspension they need fast enough… not sure what is the score now as that was about 9 months ago.

Either way, more is to come so I'll get more info as it come along.
And as said before, any suggestion are welcome so keep them coming.

Jerrick