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Thread: How many interested in a new high end coil over at a good price?

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Posts: 21-30 of 129
2014-09-05 22:21:45
Originally Posted by Thomas
Oh I'm an ass? I responded in kind to your FIRST post. LOL.

I don't know the difference? How long have you owned an se-r? Were you on the mailing list back in the 90's? How many conventions have you been to? (I've been to ALL of them except for one) Ask anyone whose anyone past and future on the forum or the other one who I am before you start throwing mud.

ok, all that would prove that you know what your taking about how? since I didnt own a SER as long as you, been in the group as long as you or havent been to a convention makes me any less knowledgeable than you, how???

I don't know it all and I am not afraid to admit.
2014-09-05 22:26:40
Originally Posted by Thomas
And you base this on what? Looks? The Color? Do you have shock dyno data? Had these on your car and on the track?

Please don't comment if you don't know.

Originally Posted by Keo
I dont see that being High end

to me, this is being as ass. questioning me without knowing your self. this is a picture of a B15 coilovers.
2014-09-05 22:27:48
@Vadim @BenFenner

admins, am I out of line with this?
2014-09-05 22:34:29
Fuggin' horse beater.
2014-09-05 22:49:19
Originally Posted by Keo
admins, am I out of line with this?
A healthy dose of skepticism is always appropriate when it comes to suspension setups for our special chassis. Doubly so when claimed to be "high end". Anyone who's been around this community for half as long as @Thomas Reynolds claims to be would know this on an intimate level and would be prepared for these types of questions and comments from our community. Anyone who's expecting to sell or represent a company here should also be confident enough in their product to take skepticism as an opportunity to educate and exceed expectations.
2014-09-06 00:32:37
Whoa, I am coming in at a good time then I see.
First of all, a healthy dose of criticism is actually good… other wise everyone will just show up with something new and no back up.

Right, I have to say first I am not very familiar with the B chassis.
In the UK, we have the suspension for the N chase is (N15 / N16 Almera) which is the same as the B.
However, one thing we always do is to work with the owner community to get the suspension right first.

Let me introduce ourself first, my name is Jerrick and I am from MeisterR Ltd.
We are a UK suspension specialist and mainly offer coilovers for aftermarket performance application.

As for suspension, what Thomas posted is our Zeta-R range which is our "entry level" performance suspensions.
They are around the $1000 mark and as you can see in the pictures, may look like a lot of other coilovers.

One of the most difficult thing to talk about suspension is when you are trying to compare them to other brands.
Because you always get the ABC look like XYZ, or XYZ are made by AAA, etc…
One thing I can assure you is that just because they look the same on the outside, it certainly won't be the same on the inside.

So what makes MeisterR different from everyone else.
MeisterR is one of the few brands you see on the market that have our own Research and Development dept. in the UK.
We have a full suspension workshop with CNC machine, and we have an experienced vehicle dynamic engineer present.
So what that mean is we don't just sell suspensions from a box, we engineer the suspension to perform specific vehicle dynamic that we want to achieve.
Now it may look like some other suspension on paper, but sometime a small tweak makes a huge difference in how a suspension perform.

We have a lot of uneven road surfaces in the UK, and one of the main importance that are placed on suspension is comfort and traction.
As funny as it may sound, many suspension (especially some of the big name Japanese brand such as Cusco, JIC, Tanabe, HKS) are too track focus in their damper valving.
What that mean is you end up having a suspension that are uncomfortable on the road and do not provide traction over uneven road surfaces, which is what you are after if you are upgrading your suspension.

By paying attention to the bump curve (especially the first 5% of the curve and where the cracking pressure is achieve), you are able to give that compliancy for road use as well as progressively load road tyres resulting in more traction.
This isn't rocket science, you just need to have understanding of vehicle dynamic and how to apply it to the dampers.
This attention to details is what separate MeisterR from other suspension brand on the Zeta-R suspensions.

We also do a "High-End" suspension call the GT1, and that is going to be ready shortly.
As the name state, it is GT (Grand Turismo) and really is design for road use and occasional track days.
This is a 1-way adjustable suspension design to compete with high end suspension such as Ohlins DFV… except we will one up against Ohlins and that is saying something.

We have been doing a lot of research and development on the GT1, and venturing into material that no other suspensions supplier have even considered.
We are using a new material for the piston wear band, the new material have 3x the tensile strength but only 1/3 the Coefficient of Drag when you compare it to the common PTFE Teflon Bronze filled material.
By doing that we massively reduce stiction that are present in most suspension system.

We also design a new main shaft seal that are rated to 400bars of pressure (most damper will never exceed 40 bars of pressure).
And the shaft seal are so strong that we are going to offer a "lifetime" warranty on the dampers against hydraulic operational failure (the long as there aren't physical damage) because the seal simply do not wear and will not fail.

The GT1 also have a bespoke CNC piston that incorporate multiple flow channel that will handle different wheel frequency.
So that mean you can have a suspension that is comfortable on the road, but responsive as soon as you put steering input on the wheels.

So that is what we do… quite a lot… with a lot of technical backing also.

Other do ask, what have we done in the racing circle?
Over the past few years, we done a few things with many owners of different community.

2010: Time Attack FWD Class 2nd Place
2011: British Drift Championship Professional Class Champion, VTEC Challenge Winner (most win)
2012: VTEC Challenge Winner (most win)
2013: British Drift Championship Super Professional Class Champion, VTEC Challenge Winner (most win)

The above was all done on the Zeta-R, which is what most people buy off the shelf.
We tweak some springs rate and so on to fit the need of the driver, but by all mean it isn't anything very special from what anyone would buy.

In 2014, with the addition of Black Art Design (BAD) and the GT1 suspension, we have been doing more mainstream racing:

Mitsubishi Lancer Registry Sprint Series: 2nd Place in championship (Class B)
Competition Clutch FWD Drag Series: Fastest FWD Car in UK
VTEC Challenge: 1st Place in championship (production class)

Anyways, I think this is quite a long post and should give us some credit and background info on what we do.
We have been doing suspension since 2009, and our partner BAD have been designing suspension for over 20 years; so we aren't someone new that may show up and disappear in the next few years.

If anyone got any questions they would like to ask, please feel free to let me know.
I am always happy to answer any questions one may have to the best of my ability.

2014-09-06 02:48:51
Welcome Jerrick! Thank you for taking the time to join and post here.

Do you have any shock dyno graphs by any chance? Also what kind of springs are you using, they look fairly similar to what BC/Megan uses, which are ok but not great . What's the price range for the GT1's?
2014-09-06 12:51:26
@MeisterR, welcome to the discussion!
Funny you mention Black Art Design, as your outfit sounds very similar to theirs. I've met some of their staff in person, and watched them spec out a setup for a chassis or two.

Do you have spring rate data for us compared to the class-leading Swift springs? I'm wondering how consistent your spring rates are throughout their travel.

Do you have Zeta-R and GT1 shock dyno data for us to use for comparison?

What made you settle on 32 adjustment points for the Zeta-R line?

Where are your springs manufactured, and who else does this supplier supply?

Where are your dampers manufactured, and who else does this supplier supply?

What exactly to you mean when you say the N15 and N16 are "the same" as our B13/B14/B15 chassis?
Last edited by BenFenner on 2014-09-06 at 12-57-14.
2014-09-07 03:12:01
@Keo is right. Those are b15 style coils. And @BenFenner I'm pretty sure n16 is same "platform" as the b15. N15 is similar to b14. Just like rnn14 (gti-r) and n14 are similar to the b13.
2014-09-07 04:59:20
Okay, a few questions so I'll try to answer them as fairly as I can.

1. The GT1 will be around the $2700 mark, but this isn't finalise because it does depends a lot of factors.
But it isn't out of this world for advance custom build 1-way suspensions, and much cheaper than the likes of Ohlins.

2. Springs: The standard springs are linear rate springs, but as Vadim said they are Okay but not great.
BAD have been working with Eibach for over 10 years, and if anyone wanted "great" springs, we will pop a set of Eibach ERS springs on the coilovers.
As much as I like to have Eibach ERS on all coilovers, the reality is that you have to balance out value for money.
Most driver wouldn't feel the difference between a standard MeisterR 8kg/mm springs vs 450lb/in Eibach ERS springs, but they will feel the difference between a 8kg/mm springs vs a 6kg/mm springs.

So money will be better spend on development to make sure you get the right springs and damper in the setup so the driver will actually benefit from the difference in vehicle dynamic… something that they can feel and enjoy.

You guys get more choices in the USA, but in Europe it really is Eibach and nothing else…
I actually talk with Swift but there just isn't enough interests to make distribution a possibility; but I do know plenty about Swift.

Dyno: I know this isn't what you guys want to hear, but as a general policy we don't release dyno anymore (we got loads in our book).
The reason is we find as soon as you release dyno data, you get lots of people who try to make sense of something they don't know.
The most problematic is those who knows a little, but feel they knows a lot…
As they say, a "little" knowledge can be a very dangerous thing.

This came about after I was told that "I am probably just a salesman and don't know much about suspension, and if I can get the engineers to get back to him on his queries" after I told them we use Force vs Displacement dyno to tune our suspensions.
BAD have been using FvD to tune suspension for over a decade because it is the graph that shows the cracking pressure and how peak force are made, not just record the peak force which is what Force vs Velocity graph do.

If anyone want to dyno MeisterR damper, they are free to do so.
If anyone want to know about a MeisterR damper for a specific reason (such as if they want to achieve a specific damper force at 140mm/s and need to know what adjustments or what shim stack to go for, we can provide those info).
The GT1 for example have 6 different bump shims and 7 different rebound shims setting, which makes for a total of 42 different valving combination depending on what is needed.
Each of the shims are design to hit a specific damping force at 140mm/s

32 damping adjustments: That really is just how the needle and pin profile works.
Each adjustment is 0.1mm on the pin, and the jet are fully open at 32 clicks.
It is a little finer than our old setup which was 16 clicks.
What I tell owners is think of them as 16 clicks with a half clicks in between.
The finer adjustments makes the biggest difference at the harder adjustments end where each click make a bigger difference on the force.

Manufacturer: We don't release manufacturer info because it does make people think if ABC build the suspension, then everything will be the same when in fact it isn't.
Not to mention we do change manufacturer (have done so before) depending on what they offer and the level technical ability they can offer.
MeisterR is our own brand with our own R&D dept, which mean we don't just sell what ever is available off the shelf, but we actually tell the production WHAT to build.
Therefore, we will work with those who can build to our specification; it is really that simple.

Chassis: As i have said, we don't have the Sentra B chassis in the UK.
We have the Pulsar GTiR (RNN14), Almera N15, and the Almera N16.
As mention above, they share the chassis platform with the B13, B14, B15 respectively.
However, should we do work with the B-chassis, we will make adjustments to suit the chassis.
We won't just bolt something on and go "Oh, it fit… have a nice day."
That isn't how MeisterR design suspension, if changes can be made to make something better, we will do it.

I hope that answer some questions…
Again, we are in the early days with the USA market and don't expect to be operational until next year.
However, we are always happy to hear what the enthusiast community are after.

Any questions, please feel free to let me know.

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