B13 rear suspension re-assembly problem. Alignment all wrong. (Broadband only!)
Facebook albums permalink 1 and 2 and 3 (in case the images don't show up in the future).
I thought I knew everything there was to know about the B13 SE-R. Apparently not, as I'm baffled now.
Long story:
I had a clunk in the rear suspension I was tracking down (it turned out to be the rear Progress torsion bar end links). I ordered a full rear suspension ES bushing kit and installed the bushings for the trailing arms only (or what ever they are) without any problems. I then replaced the stock suspension with a KYB AGX / Road Magnet combo, and all went well.
The clunk was still there though. I decided to install the ES rear parallel link bushings, partially aware of the controversy surrounding this "upgrade" in an attempt to get rid of the clunk, and tighten up the rear a bit more. When removing the 14 year-old, rusted rear parallel link hardware I managed to break the combination toe/camber adjustment bolts, and had to cut through the long outer bolts that attach the links to the hubs. All-in-all, two of the 6 bolts survived.
In the process of cutting through the bolts when I removed them, I put a slice in one of the parallel links, where the bushing is pressed in. I welded the slice, and ground it down to what I thought was perfect, but that one bushing was harder to insert than the rest and never really seemed 100% great.
I called up Greg V. and he sent me all new hardware for the rear. I put in the bushings, and re-assembled the rear parallel links assuming all four of the links where the same exact size so I didn't really take note of which one I put back where. When I was finished assembling, I adjusted the toe/camber bolts back to where they'd been before disassembly, and took a look at the situation. The driver's side tire had massive negative camber, and massive toe in. The passenger's side tire had massive negative camber. I adjusted the bolts to their extreme in an attempt to correct the situation. The passenger's side tire seemed to be fine now. The camber was gone, and the tire was flush with the fender as it has always been. The driver's side tire still had a bit of negative camber and toe in, but not as bad. The tire however was no longer flush with the fender as it used to be, and seemed to be 15mm inboard or so.
Still, the car had to be driven, so I left things this way. My friend following me said the car looked like it was crab walking. The car's body seemed right of center of the rear suspension, and the car was cοcked to one side while going straight down the highway.
I had a 2,000 mile road trip ahead of me, and wanted to get this fixed before I went. I had a suspicion that the rear parallel links were in fact not all the same, so the day before my trip I called up Greg V. to see if my suspicions were correct. Greg said there were different part numbers for the links, but could not confirm what, if anything was different about them.
I took the rear links apart and measured and measured trying to find a difference between the links without any luck. Upon disassembly, I found that the two long bolts (one on each side of the car) that hold the links to the hubs were both bent. The driver's side was bent much more than the passenger's side, but they were both bent.
Update: The bolts bent for three reasons.
1) I torqued them to 80 ft. lbs. instead of the 55-65 ft. lbs. recommended in the FSM (normally not a problem but see reason #2).
2) The surface the bushing mates to on the cast iron knuckle was angled to one side.
3) The ES bushings were much less forgiving than the factory rubber.
At this point I realized there was nothing I could really do at the time, so I put the car back together as best I could. This time, not adjusting the toe/camber bolts to the extreme, just keeping them in their original place (making the toe/camber situation awful at best). I went on the 2,000 mile road trip, and noted the tire wear. The tires were brand-new Falken Azenis. There is minimal wear on the front tires, the driver's side rear is maybe 1/3 gone, and the passenger's side rear tire is about 1/2 gone now.
Here are some pictures I took during the first disassembly:
Short story:
Replaced all rear suspension parallel link bolts and installed urethane bushings. Rear suspension geometry is now completely wonky and bolts bent. Have a lot of negative camber on both sides, a lot of toe in on the driver's side, and driver's side wheel seems to be inboard more than the passenger side.
Questions:
What the hell happened?
How did the bolts bend?
What the hell do I do to fix the situation?
What is the real difference between the rear parallel links, if any?
Do I have new links, bolts, and rubber bushings in my future?
I thought I knew everything there was to know about the B13 SE-R. Apparently not, as I'm baffled now.
Long story:
I had a clunk in the rear suspension I was tracking down (it turned out to be the rear Progress torsion bar end links). I ordered a full rear suspension ES bushing kit and installed the bushings for the trailing arms only (or what ever they are) without any problems. I then replaced the stock suspension with a KYB AGX / Road Magnet combo, and all went well.
The clunk was still there though. I decided to install the ES rear parallel link bushings, partially aware of the controversy surrounding this "upgrade" in an attempt to get rid of the clunk, and tighten up the rear a bit more. When removing the 14 year-old, rusted rear parallel link hardware I managed to break the combination toe/camber adjustment bolts, and had to cut through the long outer bolts that attach the links to the hubs. All-in-all, two of the 6 bolts survived.
In the process of cutting through the bolts when I removed them, I put a slice in one of the parallel links, where the bushing is pressed in. I welded the slice, and ground it down to what I thought was perfect, but that one bushing was harder to insert than the rest and never really seemed 100% great.
I called up Greg V. and he sent me all new hardware for the rear. I put in the bushings, and re-assembled the rear parallel links assuming all four of the links where the same exact size so I didn't really take note of which one I put back where. When I was finished assembling, I adjusted the toe/camber bolts back to where they'd been before disassembly, and took a look at the situation. The driver's side tire had massive negative camber, and massive toe in. The passenger's side tire had massive negative camber. I adjusted the bolts to their extreme in an attempt to correct the situation. The passenger's side tire seemed to be fine now. The camber was gone, and the tire was flush with the fender as it has always been. The driver's side tire still had a bit of negative camber and toe in, but not as bad. The tire however was no longer flush with the fender as it used to be, and seemed to be 15mm inboard or so.
Still, the car had to be driven, so I left things this way. My friend following me said the car looked like it was crab walking. The car's body seemed right of center of the rear suspension, and the car was cοcked to one side while going straight down the highway.
I had a 2,000 mile road trip ahead of me, and wanted to get this fixed before I went. I had a suspicion that the rear parallel links were in fact not all the same, so the day before my trip I called up Greg V. to see if my suspicions were correct. Greg said there were different part numbers for the links, but could not confirm what, if anything was different about them.
I took the rear links apart and measured and measured trying to find a difference between the links without any luck. Upon disassembly, I found that the two long bolts (one on each side of the car) that hold the links to the hubs were both bent. The driver's side was bent much more than the passenger's side, but they were both bent.
Update: The bolts bent for three reasons.
1) I torqued them to 80 ft. lbs. instead of the 55-65 ft. lbs. recommended in the FSM (normally not a problem but see reason #2).
2) The surface the bushing mates to on the cast iron knuckle was angled to one side.
3) The ES bushings were much less forgiving than the factory rubber.
At this point I realized there was nothing I could really do at the time, so I put the car back together as best I could. This time, not adjusting the toe/camber bolts to the extreme, just keeping them in their original place (making the toe/camber situation awful at best). I went on the 2,000 mile road trip, and noted the tire wear. The tires were brand-new Falken Azenis. There is minimal wear on the front tires, the driver's side rear is maybe 1/3 gone, and the passenger's side rear tire is about 1/2 gone now.
Here are some pictures I took during the first disassembly:
Short story:
Replaced all rear suspension parallel link bolts and installed urethane bushings. Rear suspension geometry is now completely wonky and bolts bent. Have a lot of negative camber on both sides, a lot of toe in on the driver's side, and driver's side wheel seems to be inboard more than the passenger side.
Questions:
What the hell happened?
How did the bolts bend?
What the hell do I do to fix the situation?
What is the real difference between the rear parallel links, if any?
Do I have new links, bolts, and rubber bushings in my future?
Last edited by BenFenner
on 2015-02-18
at 22-05-19.