Thread: b13 11" wilwood (BABK science)

I hate running brake lines, not gonna lie. Wilwood sells a one to two valve as well as a one to one. A brake pressure tester off the bleeding screw to adjust the rear bias wouldn't be that much of a b!tch I would think. Tedious but not hard, with 3 people haha. From what I read off of stop tech, a linear system front to rear is the best. Say if you had a 1000 lbs in the front , you would want 500 lbs in the rear. From what I gathered*

Honestly, I have a hard time imagining why anyone would need an 11" kit in the rear, especially when mated to an 11" rotor up front. (I know the rear rotor is not vented, but still.) That seems like way too much brake for the rear.

Maybe it would make sense on Miko's setup.

Yeah, but to be honest. I can get a pair of reman P11 calipers for $120. 120 for calipers + CS brakets + 80 for proportioning valves. I mean, why not? If I'm gonna run wilwoods in the front. I'm just trying to justify what a good setup with the wilwoods would be, including an NX2k master.

I feel like there's a lot of skepticism on the subject, but nothing set in stone. The car is going to be a fun weekend cruising car/ track day car with about 330 +-20 whp.

my opinion based on my personal experience is for a street and weekend track car running 205 or smaller tires you will never ever ever exceed the braking ability of ad22 fronts and stock backs. and the proportioning is fine. myself and many others track with this setup. on a sentra the rear doesnt do anything anyways really. If you are running big wheels and tires, especially r compounds, then that changes things. for my track car im going to be running willwood 11" fastbrakes kit on the front and some type of aluminum 2 piston caliper for the back. maybe a brembo or a z32 sumitomo with custom brackets and maybe some maxima rotors. to make life way easier im just going to run an aftermarket pedal set (https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecID=6395) that way i can choose my mc size exactly and just use a proportioning valve to fine tune. another reason for the pedal set is to run hydro throwout bearing on the b15 trans with less headache.

The tire size and compound suggestion put things into perspective. I'm not gonna lie, I've only autox'd a handful of times (6 maybe 7 events). The brake setup I seem to be trying to concoct is one for a straight road course car it seems. I don't plan to road course the car till I feel I'm a good enough driver, so it seems the idea I have in my head is a little overkill...alotta overkill =p.

I currently run 205 45 16 on the car as it sits, with potenza re-11's. Which seems to be an okay setup for autox and a weekend fun car. I just figured while the car is down for an extended period of time I would just go ahead and knock everything out.

The aftermarket pedal setup didn't seem like a reasonable expense until I just realized that's where you get the bias bar and the ease of a hydro clutch install. I'm guessing with that type of pedal setup you would eliminate the brake boost? or no?

Also, what formula is there for proportioning and master cylinder piston size? http://outlawdiscbrakes.com/faq.html, found it.

ALSO, this is a really neat idea that some supra guys took from race cars and implemented on their own cars.

Track racing brake setup

Scroll down and look at some of the pics.

Another link I found helpful in understanding all this nonsense =p

http://www.stockcarproducts.com/tech1k.htm

link to a good set alternative to stuff ap racing offers.
http://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/p14087/PRO-RACE-FLOOR-MOUNTED-PEDAL-BOX-5:1-RATIO/product_info.html


I like this picture. The pedal box w/ the dual masters and clutch master as an all in one unit.

Coleman beat this to death @SCC imho on my own car with excellent results. There is at times a little (emphasize a very small amt) of rear bias if you're ham-fisted with the brakes. Anyone who has driven the car remarks on the excellent pedal feel. My other B13 has NX with the same MC and stock rear B13 calipers, it's a good setup but does not compete with WW fronts for total braking power. It is more than enough brake with the right pad setup and not quite so touchy when you use a lot of pedal. For mass start racing I think it would be better, for TT/Time Attack type use the WW is much more controllable at higher speeds with the right pads. Rear pads I always just use OEM level pads, usually actual OEM. More than that the rears have too much bite.

When people talk about front or esp. rear bias it's often because they are locking the brakes prematurely, or in the front because the car is diving heavily. That has more to do with overall car balance than brakes, if the front is too soft you're going to get some rear wheel lockup with this setup.

If I could change anything at all, I'd put in a manual PV so I could tune the bias front to rear (or rear to front) just a bit, but so far have not been motivated to go there.

I've put thousands and thousands of miles on this setup on the track and on the road, if you have any specific questions I can help with just let me know

The MC I'm using is the 0.94" one described by Coleman as a B15 MC. Rear brakes are described as 1995 Nissan Maxima calipers.

Brake Lines I got the Crown/Kevlar sandwich lines from Greg V. None better imho. Goodbridge is nowhere near as stout as these lines, I already blew a Goodbridge in the rear once, not cool. The fittings in particular are much better.




I run Ferodo DS 2500's for street/dual use in front, DS 3000's for track. Cold the 3000's are awful, never use them for street. Swapping Wilwood pads takes less time than pulling the wheels and jacking up the car, so it's well worth using both for track. Autocross I use the 2500's. You can see the diff here (bottom line is the 2500 friction taking a dive with extreme temps)- black line is the 3000's.



I go through pads fairly quickly along with rotors, with mixed road/track/autocross I have been running through a set of rotors a year in 10-15k miles, a set of 2500's per year, and about 10-15 days for a set of 3000's, maybe more. Mass start racing I'd use a lot less, but time trialing you do a lot of hard, late braking with a wide open shot at the corners, and I use every minute of track time I can get. Last full season I ran around 3000 miles on the track total. Doesn't sound like much until you break that down to laps

Point is cost is always a factor and Ferodo pads are cheaper than a lot of alternatives. Coleman is big on them and I can see why. The Hawk HP's he tried first were not impressive and I tend to agree on that.

Rear calipers (yes I painted these since then, Dave wasn't big on the appearance stuff) -



Seriously I don't see how you can do better for the money than the setup I'm running, clearly NX brakes ARE enough brake, but if can appreciate the difference and like a firm pedal feel, easy modulation, this is a great setup. I have an awesome close comparison in my other B13, same model, same year, same power levels and very close suspension, but the NX + B13 stock rear setup. It's nowhere near as strong as this.

For even more time wasting I keep a bunch more pics of this kind of stuff here:

B13_SER_x_2

Crappy pic of the MC, pretty sure that's a NABCO but I can check later:

Totally agree here. Once you go to stickier tires and up the stopping power of the rears and front Wilwoods, an adj PV would be a mighty handy thing to have. I happen to like the pedal feel but as the cup guys will tell you, the NX is also fine for track with the right pads, and a hell of a lot less money. Wilwood came on my car so I count myself lucky there.