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Thread: Want Cheap Sentra BBKs? Help me out!

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Posts: 11-20 of 22
2009-08-06 19:04:22
#11
Ben, are you at the limit as to how much the rotor can be moved in?
2009-08-06 19:11:22
#12
Originally Posted by mafoose
Well I want to offer a cheap alternative, basically a "piece it together" kit, that would compose of caliper brackets, rotor hats, and possibly brake lines.
Of course we'd also offer a complete bolt in setup as well.
I'm thinking of different options for calipers as well, from OEM 4 piston setups to Wilwoods/Brembos/Baer/etc. Mild to wild basically.


I might be able to do cheaper
What's wrong with a little competition?
Hey, if it makes financial sense for you to do then I'm all for it.


Originally Posted by mafoose
Ben, are you at the limit as to how much the rotor can be moved in?
I could take a picture but from memory I believe there is 2mm between the rotor surface and the A-arm. I have no idea if you want to go any closer than that.

There is room to grind away on the A-arm which might give you another millimeter or two of clearance. After that the steering knuckle, ball joint and A-arm become a problem.

This obviously is dependent on how thick the rotors are that you plan on using. Thinner rotors mean you can put them inboard more, but I don't think that's worth the trade-off.

I forget how thick my rotors are but I'm sure a little searching on the fastbrakes website could find that info.
2009-08-06 19:16:06
#13
I forgot to mention... I don't know how many others have to worry about spoke clearance as much as I do. My wheels don't have much caliper clearance built into them. Most racing wheels do though, and for them the Fastbrakes kits aren't a problem. I don't know. Maybe you could package things in so tight that B14 SE-R wheels would clear or clear with a small spacer*. That might be worth it, but I'd make sure you're doing this for a reason. If it doesn't matter to anyone but me, that's a bad reason to make it a priority. =]

*I have no idea, maybe Fastbrakes already clear the B14 SE-R wheels? I don't think so though.
2009-08-06 19:35:50
#14
Originally Posted by BenFenner
Any farther inboard and the rotor will contact the lower A-arm.


funny you should say this. i didn't tighten my ball joint on the racecar for some stupid reason and was wheeling my car around my warehouse for about a month before i realized why the car was so difficult to push... my rotor now has a giant gash all the way around it because it was rubbing on the control arm
2009-08-06 20:20:42
#15
mafoose - Have you priced out the other BBKs available for our cars? It's a pretty competitive market and I'm not sure there's really room to undercut the pricing much. What features do you hope to offer or improve upon? I'm just wondering what's motivating you to create a whole new kit instead of just buying one of the proven kits already available.

If you do decide to go ahead and build a new kit, I'd focus on trying to pick a setup that would allow for a lot of existing pad choices and would improve brake balance F/R. Maybe something focused around OEM Brembos or Nissan 300ZX Nissin Calipers? Wilwood setups have already been done well.
2009-08-07 00:02:38
#16
Originally Posted by BenFenner
I forgot to mention... I don't know how many others have to worry about spoke clearance as much as I do. My wheels don't have much caliper clearance built into them. Most racing wheels do though, and for them the Fastbrakes kits aren't a problem. I don't know. Maybe you could package things in so tight that B14 SE-R wheels would clear or clear with a small spacer*. That might be worth it, but I'd make sure you're doing this for a reason. If it doesn't matter to anyone but me, that's a bad reason to make it a priority. =]

*I have no idea, maybe Fastbrakes already clear the B14 SE-R wheels? I don't think so though.

B14 wheels will clear the 11" kit with a 5mm spacer.
2009-08-07 07:54:58
#17
Originally Posted by BenFenner
Hey, if it makes financial sense for you to do then I'm all for it.


I could take a picture but from memory I believe there is 2mm between the rotor surface and the A-arm. I have no idea if you want to go any closer than that.

There is room to grind away on the A-arm which might give you another millimeter or two of clearance. After that the steering knuckle, ball joint and A-arm become a problem.

This obviously is dependent on how thick the rotors are that you plan on using. Thinner rotors mean you can put them inboard more, but I don't think that's worth the trade-off.

I forget how thick my rotors are but I'm sure a little searching on the fastbrakes website could find that info.


Rotors are 1in thick (from here and here).

I'm trying to find the equations for determining rotor mass requirements. I heard that this book has those equations, but I'll keep looking to see if they are available online. Thickness can dictate how the rotors heat soak and cool on a car, I think if I went with a slightly thinner rotor plus an increase in diameter would keep the mass close, and be able to be mounted further inward. Going with a .81in width rotor would afford almost 5mm more space, and if it was 12in in diameter, It could probably be mounted inward even further.

Originally Posted by BenFenner
I forgot to mention... I don't know how many others have to worry about spoke clearance as much as I do. My wheels don't have much caliper clearance built into them. Most racing wheels do though, and for them the Fastbrakes kits aren't a problem. I don't know. Maybe you could package things in so tight that B14 SE-R wheels would clear or clear with a small spacer*. That might be worth it, but I'd make sure you're doing this for a reason. If it doesn't matter to anyone but me, that's a bad reason to make it a priority. =]

*I have no idea, maybe Fastbrakes already clear the B14 SE-R wheels? I don't think so though.

I might be able to offer something that would.

Originally Posted by Yosho
mafoose - Have you priced out the other BBKs available for our cars? It's a pretty competitive market and I'm not sure there's really room to undercut the pricing much. What features do you hope to offer or improve upon? I'm just wondering what's motivating you to create a whole new kit instead of just buying one of the proven kits already available.

If you do decide to go ahead and build a new kit, I'd focus on trying to pick a setup that would allow for a lot of existing pad choices and would improve brake balance F/R. Maybe something focused around OEM Brembos or Nissan 300ZX Nissin Calipers? Wilwood setups have already been done well.

I know they've been done. This would be a budget setup, using OEM 4 piston calipers. The Z32 calipers have been brought up a lot, and something might be doable. The early Z32 calipers are also aluminum (known to flex on the Z32, but I think they'll be OK on the light Sentra chassis). Other ideas have been brought up such as toyota 4 piston calipers. Both the Toyota and Nissan calipers can be had in a variety of rotor widths.

An aftermarket caliper setup would probably also be developed since we're going to have all the measurements done up.

Originally Posted by happynole
B14 wheels will clear the 11" kit with a 5mm spacer.

Good to know. Again, switching to that slightly thinner rotor would clear them without a spacer.
2009-08-07 11:02:10
#18
Originally Posted by mafoose
Good to know. Again, switching to that slightly thinner rotor would clear them without a spacer.
Yah, but I don't think a 12" rotor will fit inside the 15" wheel. I believe the diameter becomes the issue at that point. Something to look out for. Even at 11" my caliper is extremely close to the inside of the wheel rim.
2009-08-07 15:36:47
#19
Okay I know this, that I have swapped my Old b13 xe knuckles on to my 97 se-r and vice versa without issue.
2009-08-07 19:06:17
#20
Originally Posted by hiimrif
Okay I know this, that I have swapped my Old b13 xe knuckles on to my 97 se-r and vice versa without issue.

Thanks for letting me know, all the parts might be in similar places, and the design just updated, I'm going to see if I can get one of each to compare them.

Also, rotor selection seems better in 11.75 from what I have seen in the Wilwood catalog. Using a radial mount caliper, the total setup's radius is only 3.3mm longer then the 11in kit Fastbrake's offers. I wonder if that's doable on most 15 wheels..

By the way, anyone know which rotors are the ones in the 11in kit? They're one piece, so are they the NX rotors? I've looked through the Wilwood catalog and they don't list any 11x1in rotors.

Anyone have any B14 wheels that they could measure the internal diameter(s) for me? If I aim for those wheels I can see what I can come up with in terms of brake sizing.
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