Thread: Foam Filling the chassis......

As far as the foam itself it is the triple expanding stuff that can bulge out the metal. If you put too much in the foam has no where else to go so it expands too much (for what you want) and bends the metal. If you can use the small gap stuff and start off in a place where you can see the foam expand. This will give you and idea on how much to put in so you do not over fill. Go a little at a time as to not over expand.
I have also thought of doing this but i am not to that point yet. I do not fully understand on where to fill and where not to fill. As Autech was saying the energy has to be transferred somewhere, if the chassis is stiff then some panel might start to kink or bend. But depending on the foam the filled part will still have some flex. Great Stuff gets pretty rigged, just dont use the latex stuff, it is soft and will do nothing for you.

I hope we get some more people to chime in that have done it themselves. I would be interested in learning more.

Right on Shawn, I am anxious to see how it goes for you. Very interesting we haven't seen more people try this like you were saying, it seems so easy and cheap for how much benefit one is supposed to get out of it. I'll keep watching for updates

Thank you for your insight.

So the point is, the stiffer the chassis, the more it forces energy (twisting) back into the suspension itself (?). Which is where it is supposed to be.


Hehehehe.....

fender braces - SR20 Forum

Yes, they are still available, and Stephen is shipping me a set on Wednesday.



What exactly are the "front rails"? Yes, I am that ignorant. Please explain further or perhaps a simple diagram (?).

Would the Cusco FSTB and the Stephen Fender Braces (link above) effectively "box in the strut towers"? Or are you discussing something different with that point?

The "a" pillar runs from the roof, down the edges of the front of the windsheild....and....uh....into the car.

Understand that my ignorance level on car frames is wide and deep.



I'm gonna have to do the best I can, based on my common sense and the guidance of my mechanic/body-shop dudes. Either of whom will help me out, no problems. Both shops love me, my insanity, and my money.

B-Pillar brace? I do not think one commercially exists (?).

Further, my goal is the stiffest, tightest, chassis possible retaining all the stock functionality (like the backseat) and appearances. No roll cages, nor visible bracing from outside the vehicle.


The rear will have the Active Tuning RSTB and the IKEA brace tack welded into place. Then I will see what I can do to that "c" pillar.

Again, no "b" pillar brace is available that I am aware of, and it sounds like linking a "b" pillar brace to the RSTB would negate the back seat (?).

I really, really like the Bolt-In-Bars new 3-point Triangulated RSTB. However, I already own the 2-point Active Tuning unit, and my costs have already skyrocketed.



No comprende. "Lower control rear"....what is that?

Again, I already have an AT RSTB (very stout 2-point RSTB), and an IKEA brace being welded into place.


Thanks. That makes sense.


I am not mechanically knowledgable enough to debate this point with you nor anyone else. However, Mike K (and seemingly most everyone else) thinks we have a linguini-chassis.

Perhaps it is all in perspective?


Partially confused, mostly helped.


Understood. I am using whatever Steve used, he purposely bought a lower number density to avoid bowing out the metal.



Good ideas. I'm gonne be overtly careful.



Good to know that my ignorant-ass is gonna be blazing a photo-filled trail here.... This is gonna be the blind, namely me, leading those with sight.



Well, here's my plan:

a) Cusco FSTB

b) Stephens Fender Braces

c) Active Tuning RSTB

d) IKEA Brace

e) Foam Filling - Every place that makes sense to me, my mechanic, and my body-shop dude.


No Great Stuff or Home Depot foam whatsover. No way, no how.

Only the foam recommended by Steve and Mike. They warn extensively on exactly what foam to use and why.


I'm welcoming any feedback. And then jumping off the cliff, feet first.


As soon as I am done here, I am running errands. One of which will be to Target for a (relatively) inexpensive digital camera and the appropriate cables and such to dump the photos into my computer.

I just figure most of you guys, perhaps all of you guys, could do this much easier than myself. Time-consuming, but not that difficult, and relatively cheap compared to all the bracing that we buy/install.

I remember reading an article in SCC a few years ago that dealt with bracing. One of the Japanese tuners welded strips of metal in an x pattern into the inside of his roof from a to opposite b, both sides, and then put his headliner back in. Couldn't see it from the inside but he tested it and said that it increased rigidity a great deal.

Just my 2 cents.

Peas us Riced,
Mark

Shawn, I cannot wait to see your finished product. I am overjoyed you are fixing her back up, and then some .

Really great read here, this is now added to my list of mods. PLEASE take to many pictures, I know it takes allot of time to upload them and all, as many as you can buddy.

I assume you area planning to fill the front fenders right? if you look where that fender brace bolts on, if the B13 is anything like a Honda, there is allot of open space behind there, you could probably squeeze some foam in. Just a thought, give it a look while everything is stripped.

Oh and you are right, I have read numerous times that Mike K. thinks the B13 is floppy as a half cooked noodle. By today's standards anyways..

Best of luck, don't break anything .

Dudeman

The part that supports the fender and the part that the braces attach to. They are hollow and can be filled quite easily. Once the fender is off there are several wholes that you will see.

Ahh I see, ok that's what I was referring to. The front rails. They have convenient oem holes too! That must help allot.

Dudeman

Although that is an interesting as hell idea, I'm gonna call it halts here on the foaming.

There is also some Japanese shop (maybe many of them) that gets the vehicle down to the shell, then starts "layering over the top" another "layer" of metal in critical spots. Literally making the...core support (for example) double the thickness by welding on another core support (identicle) over the existing unit. They do this at "flex points" all over the entire chassis. And of course, they seam weld everything in sight. It is nuts.

However, I got to call it quits somewhere, and I have done everything mentioned in the Suspension Thread. Yes, I have been re-reading my own thread. Yes, it needs an overhaul and update, but geezus it still contains a sh*t-load of information. More than I can remember.


I bought the Nikon last night with some little 2G memory card. Going to open it up and get to snapping today or tomorrow. Depends on if that battery comes charged or not.

And I have decided to allow my body-guys to do the foaming. I am about to purchase it, but they will be applying it. Uh....busted and bent metal scares the sh*t out of me. So, I talked to Sal (bodyshop dude) and he is going to do the honors while I take photos. This restoration is costing a sh*t-load of money, and I am not f*cking up my frame. Not over a few hours of "shop time" labor. Let a pro-fesh-in-all do it while I watch and learn. Instead of "learning as I go" on my newly straightened frame.

So, Sal the body-shop dude will be in the pics. He's excited to be doing a sport compact. He's a young kid, early twenties, and has a 91' EK hatch with a motor swap.


Gotcha. That part on the passenger side had to be cut-off just after the strut towers. It's back to perfect now. Makes sense that those are the "front rails."

No problems, I'll have Sal take a look at that area also. We already discussed, and looked at, the A, B, C pillars, and the side rails.

In this case, my Stephens Fender Braces would be then mounted to the door jams and the "foamed" front rails. Which would be better than un-foamed front rails.

Thanks for all the input and advice.

I just ordered from Tire Rack, and am now calling the Foamseal folks to get directed to a distributor. Then off to send a Postal Money Order to Stephen. Finally, go purchase the Foamseal from the Houston distributor and deliver it to "Alberts Body Shop."

Yeah, I'm excited as hell. And it is taking longer and I am spending more than I initially thought. However, the end results will make me smile for years. Priceless.

You may want to lower your expectations a little bit in terms of what and where you can inject foam. I have a fair bit of experience (unfortunately) with using chassis foam, and the stuff is extremely unweidly. Side rails are pretty easy and safe, but filling any crevices that can't be completely sealed (especially the vertically oriented ones) will not be fun.

You should also be aware that there are risks to doing this too. If you aren't careful, you can trap moisture inside some of the really hard-to-reach areas of your car and create rust pockets that you won't be able to get at. Two part polyurethane foam is also fairly flammable. Not a huge concern for most people, (it's no more a fire hazard than the magnesium tubs used in old open wheelers) but you may get some disapproving looks if you ever want to go wheel to wheel (racing) in your car.

Not to discourage you from doing it (if you haven't done so already). Filling the frame rails on my B14 made a huge difference in chassis rigidity and NVH.

Good luck.

Oh, and in case you haven't bought the materials yet, I've had better luck with US Composites 8lb / 16lb foam than with the Foamseal stuff. Here's the link:

Urethane Foam , Expanding Marine Polyurethane Foam