Thread: Cams. Stock vs Aftermarket

I still disagree considering I sold my last SR20de engine for $250 (not a lot of 'recovery' monies there)

I also don't see how a VE is going to be 'more reliable' than cams in a DE and it no matter how you look at it, cams are cheaper than going VE.

If you want to go VE for a daily, by all means, do it and I agree it can indeed be as reliable as a standard sr20de... but don't try to tell people it is cheaper, better or more reliable than cams because that just isn't the case. (not if you install cams properly anyway)

I would rather DD a RR SR20DE with S3R cams than a VE with any cams in it. But that is my two cents.

VE will net you more power and that is factual. Its a better bang for buck at the end of the day.

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Of course the power wants is subjective.

^ just keep in mind the torque isn't there (much like an S2000) and the VE grants you more hp but not torque. (<-- I guess that's why we are starting to see veT now more frequently, to get that torque up as well)

The 'bang for buck' is also somewhat subjective. I suppose if you are able to do all you own work, the end result dyno hp number per $ spent might indeed be better with a VE vs what you can squeeze out of cams (but certainly not if you are paying a shop to do the swap) ...plus how many people buy used cams and used VE vs new anyway?

As Chris has said, you barely recoup any money on a standard USDM DE. I have sourced them locally for $150-300 in various junkyards, plus they do not pull a premium before race wars like they used to. HAHA. But seriously, you can't compare a proper VE set-up to a DE. VE will always cost more money. Yes, the performance and performance ceiling is higher with the VE, but reliability differences are not there from what I have read. Reliability tends to be relative to build, needs, and goals for the car.

VE requires window switches, SHOULD have big/custom header, and ECU at a minimum. If you add the cost of vavle springs, 16ve or N1 or aftermarket cams to get every HP out of the motor, then the cost is not comparable. I personally feel a cammed DE, although not on the same performance level as a VE, is much cheaper, easier, and will be just as reliable. Regardless of how you look at it.

Also, per your own criteria, a turbo set-up is still the easiest and cheapest was for HP per dollar. Not trying to stir the pot, just keeping the info being shared honest and balanced.

If you are building a motor from new, or a separate rebuild, then the VE is the only way to go if you are staying NA.

Either way you go, hopefully you will be happy. My mid to long term goals are for a VE set-up. I feel that the VE, in a DD B or P chassis is the way that these cars should have come from the factory. Fuel efficiency, power band, and NA goodness.

Haha that race wars never gets old. Like I said that's just my opinion and experience. I've had all 3, modded de, ve and det. Now Im going VQ35 in a b chassis and I know this will blow out both the vvl and de. Also chris I do all my own work thats we why I feel its better to go ve

VE does not give you torque? Chris you must be mistaken. A VE will out torque a DE all day everyday and lets not mentioned the add TQ when the cams changeover. My VE made 203 whp at 152 ft tq and it was a super basic set up.

A S4 cammed DE if anything is more like a S2000 until you get to that sweet spot in the powerband where S4 cams shine. I am speaking from personal experience as many years ago I had a UK DE with S4 cams that ran awesome for its day.

Again I am not writting this to argue just stating what is the better option when it comes to making power and getting your bang for buck. I have seen VE's sell for $750 these days.

Now in the DE's defense yes it can be a blast when set up right. I know @happynole loves the DE in this G20 and it seems to run awesome.

I agree the S4 cams aren't necessarily the best idea in a DE for better torque either (but in track driving, you tend to be up high in the RPMs anyway)... AND the weight savings of getting points back from the cams I think will be better for us so the S4 cams are going to be coming back out of our track rat 200sx SE-R to be honest. (we get a bunch of points back that can be put towards weight savings removing the cams and FPR so yeah!) ...funny thing is we did just fine with a stock SR20de in our former 95 G20 track rat that yielded us 131whp totally stock with just a 2.5" SSAC exhaust header... so yeah.... 15 pounds per point adds up quickly when cams cost you 8 points!

Gotta love a big DE's lopey idle, and when they're still pulling hard the naughty side of 8000rpm, its truely insane.

Happynole's DE was not a normal DE.

It was 50% VE and cost a pretty penny to build. It was interesting to tune as it shared some characteristics of the VE through the power band.

Anyone who considers a cammed DE "the best bang for the buck" is lost in the SR20FORUM.COM era.

IDC what you do to a DE, a stock VE is more reliable, makes more power/TQ everywhere, and is definitely more cost effective.