Thread: Recommendations for Rally?

I have been tossing around a few ideas as to what I should do with my latest toy. It's a 1996 G20t 5 speed with the 7,500rpm redline. I've gone through a few possible build plans but I keep thinking back to my old rally car. It was a B13 Sentra and was simply a blast to drive. I realize the G20 is a lot heavier but I'm debating setting it up for rally anyways. Except this time I want to go a bit more in depth and truly optimize the entire vehicle. I'm wondering what you guys would suggest for a setup that really only needs to make nice numbers in the 3,500-7,500 rpm range. In my experience <3,500rpm power for rally is useless (unless you keep coming to a complete stop, haha). The JWT C series cams appear the most appropriate however the price vs other options keep me from committing. Not to mention that they don't do very well without a JWT retune (from my research). That makes them a $1k+ mod. Anyways my current motor plan is as follows:

• Headwork - Port n Polish with special attention to the exhaust ports
• Header with 2.5" collector
• Straightpipe catback
• Ported and knife edged TB
• Lightly ported intake mani
• Apexi afc neo
• Custom intake
• TB coolant bypass
• 18-19* base timing on 91 octane with additives
• Cams with adjustable cam gears - Which ones ... I dunno ... lol
  

Oh, here's a picture of my old rally B13 (sorry I couldnt find the big pics)

Get another B13 or stick to tarmac rallys with the G20. I don't think you'll be able to find gravel appropriate suspension for the P10 chassis.

I'll comment on your power plans as that was your original question.

I have done a fully built engine for rallying and have never really gotten to use it on stage. It was expensive to do what I did and I know there are much cheaper ways to have the same power--as in VE engine. My engine makes great torque from 4-6500, then goes flat. I think I could tune the cams a little more to keep the power up, but I couldn't keep traction with what I had, so I just left well enough alone.

I was using 10.5:1 compression, +1mm valves and Ferrea spring with C2 cams, Calum RT ecu for tuning, 370cc injectors, N60 maf to 3" intake with match ported head and intake manifold/exhaust manifold. I also have a SSAC header with 2" primaries that I made into a 2.5" exhaust with a 3" muffler section. There is a lot more to things than that, but that's most of it. My cost for all of this was about $5500 inlcuding tuning but you could put a VE engine in and make more hp and tq for under $2000. It's silly not to go that route.

My car was very light, but in the comptetitions that I did, I was getting beaten by a stock 07 Civic SI. The driver is very good, but he also had a lot more power and complained about traction. At any rate, the VE engine is closer in spec to the SI engine, so I would imagine you will be fighting a technological advantage by building a DE over installing a VE.

Just my two cents though.

Well here's my 2cents, I drove my first Rally sentra with a Stock DE and did very good to I roll my Car in TN 07 , year later came back with on other Rally Sentra and ran the rebuild DE + Turbo a T25, Now that was Great the power the torque going up does Hills and coming out of the hold and a L1,L2 or R1,R2 is great.....unfortunly I wreck the Sentra in NY 09 , now after a few years back on the build and currently building my 3 Rally Sentra this time with a VE engine , I have spoke with lots of people and I decided that before I go back to a Turbo engine I will give this a try , but I can truly say that I may be back to a DET sooner then I think ...
I'll have a better input in the VE this coming 2012 season
Gus

Power doesn't need to be absurd as long as you're in the appropriate class and know how to drive. I hate seeing very well built cars going out with cherry drivers.
Anyways, going as in depth as Rallyser suggested simply consumes too much budget. I'd have to detract the money from someplace else. Not really an option as getting the suspension up to par will likely eat up a lot just in fab work. I have started to do more info into a VE swap but part availability is what makes me shy away.
Ciclon1, how was the turbo version on reliability? That was the only reason I didn't default to that theory. Issues after how many runs, etc?
I probably should have stated that going beyond $2k for the engine (besides stage 0 items) should be avoided. The car simply wont be in a class deserving of more than 200 crank hp with a fat midrange curve.

Yeah, you're going to have to essentially completely re-make the front suspension. The G20 has a very nice setup, for street/track, but for gravel, it's just not going to hold up.

If I'm not mistaking the G20 came with and with out Rear Independens Suspencion just can recall witch Gen.
Gideon33w
I had the turbo for RNY08 , RWV08, RNY09.
Not really many turbo issues if you get the bugs out , my turbo engine set up was a stock DE with a T25 bolt on.
First rally was no Turbo issues it all powers was great .
Second Rally lost of issues with vacuum lines and turbo coming loose from flange.we fix this by the next rally .
Thirt blowing head gasket not bleaming the turbo but I think this was cause of RWV issues , event so this was a issue we manage to finish in first place at the end of the first day , second run on day two we went off end of rally .
Sens then I haven't competed it all , planing in be done with car in 2012 , running a VVL because I hear to many good things about it , no really worried about parts.
cost of VVL was $750 engine $500 cams $ 100 MSD control cams $ and about $300 tuning .
Went I build the DE+T engine I had one , but if you need to get one you can get a DE for as low is $350 , turbo set up completed with IC , injectors,fuel pump and Chip ECU about $600 so for almost 1k you can have a turbo DE+T power is Wow is not tons but defiantly a good power band ....... I never really Dyno the Turbo engine But if I have to guess for what I spoke with my SR20 buddy's here CT I has around the 200 whp and about 220-240 lbs torque .
I do have to say , that if I go Turbo again I will look in to a OEM completed DET not a + T is less power but I think it will be more reliable all around.
One thing I learned is in a rally car the most important is Suspenssion and Tiers power comes after .
Mark what am I thinking the G20 B13 and 14 was the same front Suspenssion !
How's your build coming along .
Gus

I only know the P10 G20 (1991-1996), which has an upper control arm, knuckle entension, and uses a basic shock rather than a McPherson strut.



The lower control arm is very similar to the B13/14, but that's where it ends. I suspect you could use a B13/14 knuckle and strut, might take some reworking of the strut tower though. You'd also lose the P10 brakes and end up with a 4x100 bolt pattern in the front. Might work to switch to B15 knuckles which are 4x114 like the G20, but I know next to nothing about the B15.


My build is creeping. Unless I go wild and decide to run 100 Acre Woods, my first event won't be until the May time frame, at Nemadji Trails, a 1-day event about 3 hrs north of the Minneapolis/St. Paul metro area. So as long as I keep moving, I'm not worried.

Might go check out some possible tow/service vehicles tomorrow.

It seems that a parted together turbo kit is better suited. So long as I make sure its an extremely reliable setup. Would really want to find a used ecu as a new jwt tune is pricey.

You can have it done in a stock de ECU it run for about $150 to $200
Gus