Thread: C3 cams on a 10:1 motor

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JWT said that idle quality on the C3s will be "poor". They said power production with the C3 cams is severely lacking at low rpm and lacking at mid-range rpm.

The biggest cam JWT would recommend for the street was the C2 cam. I was very surprised when they said that. I thought the S4 cams would be the largest. They'd really recommend the C1 cam as the largest for the street, but if you really wanted to go nuts they said the C2 cams would be tolerable. (They also said if you have an automatic transmission you shouldn't think about any of the "C" cams.)

I am not one to go against Miko's recommendations in these areas. He has much more experience than I do. I'm pretty sure he's recommending the C3 cams because you're not going to meet your ridiculous power goals with the C2 cams. If the power is all you're after, go with the C3 cams. If you want to remain even remotely streetable, I'd recommend the C2 cams.

No. I have not. I don't have any direct experience with any "large" cams actually. I haven't had the time, budget, desire, or opportunity so far.

If you try to make idle better by tuning out the overlap, you will lose any advantage the C3 cams have over the C2 cams. If you're going to do that, then just go with the C2 cams.
You get some of that with the C1 cams I believe. You get a bit more with the C2 cams. You'll get the most lopey idle from the C3 cams obviously, but your idle won't ever be predictable or stable unless you make the car idle at 1,200 rpm or so. Off-idle response will also be awful.

Not exactly sure what you mean. If you can get the car to idle then A/C and power steering should work as normal.


I think those are 330 cc? And no, they won't be enough I don't think unless you go to 4-bar base fuel pressure. You're looking to make significantly more than a stock VE.

will the extreme lopeyness of the C3 cams cuz my A/C and power steerring not to work properly?

so you are saying that there is no way I can commute to and from in traffic with C3 cams in the motor?

the part that bother me the most is losing too much low end and mid range power. wat about torque. I was hoping the the lightend internal: pistons, rods, flywheel and the lightened pullyes would add to my acceleration = low and mid range power, so as to offset the loss of the cams.

So wat other cams you recommend for wat I am trying to do.

I was planning to purchase the cams and gears from Andreas and ask him wat was the best setting for them with my setup approximately.

No. If the car idles and stays running, you'll have no problems with A/C and power steering.

I don't know for sure, but from what I'm imagining it will be possible, but not something you'd want to do more than once, let alone every day.

What about torque?

Nothing is going to offset the loss down low from the cams. All those items you mentioned help preserve power by being light. You're not going to be making any power to preserve. The engine will be gasping for breath. Have you ever seen a race car start off from a dead stop? It's not pretty. Some can't even do it.

What exactly are you trying to do? Make a monster DE? Okay, fine. But don't go trying to add "daily driver" to that list. Reality is a bitch.

Does Dre know you plan on daily driving this thing?

well I'm running c2 cams in my highport motor. I can tell u that a stock ecu can easily idle at 750rpm with c2 cams if u have adjustable gears. Now my engine has alittle lope but not enough to cause the engine to stall or rock at idle. Now it is true u will lose bottom end power, however my own dyno tests show that my c2s made less torque than my old s3s till 3500rpm. After that I made another 12whp on top of s3s.

The hot ticket would be if there was a way to adj the intake cam relative to engine rpm. For example my gears r set for -4 int/ +4 exh, which r the opposit for mid torque gain. This setting allows my engine to idle normally and greatly reduce the bucking of low rpm driving. However it reduces my midrange torque noticably. If I were able to advance the int cam say 8-9* I could keep a smooth idle and low speed driveablilty while getting the torque surge in midrange from advancing the intake cam. The difference this would make for me is about 10-15wtq from 3300-5800rpm!

IMHO for a daily driver the c2 cams r great. Just make sure u have a good header to back up the cams. I believe a high comp DE with c2s would not only make good power but be very easy to drive. Not to mention that with cam gears u can shift power curve to where u need it on the track.

I am building my daily into a monster DE

how u think the torque will look on this build. will the torque look like that of a VE making 200whp or will it be higher. wat u think

yeah I told Dre it will be my daily.

yeah I have seen race cars move off. its bad alot of rpm to move

wat cams do u recommend that wud offer the most power and decent drivability.

thanks guy. good info.

You will never begin to approach the low end power that a VE makes with a DE except on the weakest stock cams. There's a reason someone invented variable timing/lift cams. One set of cam lobes is very limited. If the Hondas you're dealing with have V-TEC you're basically working with one hand tied behind your back with the DE. You'd have to give up any semblance of daily drivability to compete.

C2 cams, but I'm really just going off what JWT told me. I have no first hand experience.

I put C3's in my 10:1 with the following mods already done: HS gen3 2" header(bad leak from flex pipe and felt absolutely no gains over stock manifold), JUN valve springs, JWT POP on 3" WAI, UR 2 pc. pulleys, MSD digital6+ and blaster coil, and fidanza flywheel.

Now, when i installed the C3's i felt NO power gain at all, not even up top. This was with the cams straight up. I ran the same times too. 14.0@98 with the stock 10:1 cams and the C3's. I didn't have any clearance issues though. These cams are too big for a stock head, crap header, and stock exhaust with no tuning to the engine at all. This is from my own personal experience with them.

but i will have a worked head
a better than crappy 2.5" header
3" inch exhaust
cam gears
and tuning

so I should be ok then huh?

wat you guys think about S5 cams. I havent seen any mention of that

and Prince instead of beatiing me down about the issues we spoke, why dont you find out from the horses mouth if A/C can work with these cams and how bad the drivability is. Ask Dre