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Thread: 20V VVL solenoid on a P11 VE?

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Posts: 11-19 of 19
2013-06-18 03:57:08
#11
By the way, is there any place where one can purchase the solenoid new?
The interesting thing is that on the few foreign websites I found it on by part numbers, the 20V solenoid is listed for 50-100$, while the P11 solenoids are listed at 400-500$.
2013-06-18 05:08:59
#12
Why are you wanting to use the 20v solenoid on the p11 head anyways? You can still have both solenoids engaging at the sametime.
2013-06-18 06:45:46
#13
Originally Posted by pTen
Why are you wanting to use the 20v solenoid on the p11 head anyways? You can still have both solenoids engaging at the sametime.

The motor will be mounted in an RWD configuration. The 20V solenoid would be the neatest option, as opposed to cutting out the firewall or relocating the P11 solenoids.


It seems that people have attempted it with success. It looks like this person also welded up the mounting hole. Not sure if that was necessary or not. Someone should start selling these in the US, with the option to have them pre-machined.


Last edited by Matej on 2013-06-18 at 06-56-17.
2013-06-18 07:26:39
#14
Re: 20V VVL solenoid on a P11 VE?
whats wrong with relocating? less of a hassle lol

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2
2013-06-18 23:17:58
#15
Thought of another method that may work, without the risk of ruining the 20V solenoid.

Just cut out the shape of the P11 solenoid mating surface out of a plate of aluminum, ~0.25" thick, and sandwich it between the head and the 20V solenoid. The width of the 'adapter' plate would create the oil return galley.

It would basically be similar to the P11 solenoid gasket (a good template to start from), just thicker. The only issue may be sealing it properly.
2013-06-19 14:26:40
#16
@ Matej,

Is it that both of your 20ve solenoids are bad? Or the whole assembly is missing?

If it's just one n and the 20v solenoid is same, why not just replace the solenoid itself rather than the entire assembly?

Peace
2013-06-19 19:14:40
#17
Originally Posted by Matej
Thought of another method that may work, without the risk of ruining the 20V solenoid.

Just cut out the shape of the P11 solenoid mating surface out of a plate of aluminum, ~0.25" thick, and sandwich it between the head and the 20V solenoid. The width of the 'adapter' plate would create the oil return galley.

It would basically be similar to the P11 solenoid gasket (a good template to start from), just thicker. The only issue may be sealing it properly.



Originally Posted by pTen
whats wrong with relocating? less of a hassle lol

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2


^X2, I think Matej is overcomplicating things. A kit already exist from Mazworx.

I'm pretty certain the oil return slot doesn't need to be cut on the 20V solenoid housing/block in order to work with the 20VE head. The oil return is to relieve the oil pressure in the hollow rockershafts.. It just help to go out of vvl quicker. It does not effect how fast vvl goes on. The oil already has a place to escape through the rocker arm oil squirter hole. Check out some new photos. http://www.sr20-forum.com/vvl/67552-vvl-how-works.html


Originally Posted by niZmo
@ Matej,

Is it that both of your 20ve solenoids are bad? Or the whole assembly is missing?

If it's just one n and the 20v solenoid is same, why not just replace the solenoid itself rather than the entire assembly?

Peace



I think Matej meant to say the 20V solenoid housing/block.
Last edited by KillerKrossover on 2013-06-19 at 19-16-17.
2013-06-20 00:45:30
#18
Originally Posted by 5speed
^X2, I think Matej is overcomplicating things. A kit already exist from Mazworx.

I'm pretty certain the oil return slot doesn't need to be cut on the 20V solenoid housing/block in order to work with the 20VE head. The oil return is to relieve the oil pressure in the hollow rockershafts.. It just help to go out of vvl quicker. It does not effect how fast vvl goes on. The oil already has a place to escape through the rocker arm oil squirter hole. Check out some new photos. http://www.sr20-forum.com/vvl/67552-vvl-how-works.html

Thank you, that was very interesting and informative. So you think it would be alright to use the 20V solenoid on the P11 head without any serious complications? If so, I will happily go that route!

I know I could just buy one of the relocation kits, but I really want my motor to be as simple and 'OEM' as possible, as if it came in the car from the factory.
Last edited by Matej on 2013-06-20 at 00-47-37.
2013-06-20 06:05:33
#19
Originally Posted by Matej
Originally Posted by 5speed
^X2, I think Matej is overcomplicating things. A kit already exist from Mazworx.

I'm pretty certain the oil return slot doesn't need to be cut on the 20V solenoid housing/block in order to work with the 20VE head. The oil return is to relieve the oil pressure in the hollow rockershafts.. It just help to go out of vvl quicker. It does not effect how fast vvl goes on. The oil already has a place to escape through the rocker arm oil squirter hole. Check out some new photos. http://www.sr20-forum.com/vvl/67552-vvl-how-works.html

Thank you, that was very interesting and informative. So you think it would be alright to use the 20V solenoid on the P11 head without any serious complications? If so, I will happily go that route!

I know I could just buy one of the relocation kits, but I really want my motor to be as simple and 'OEM' as possible, as if it came in the car from the factory.



Yes, I'm pretty confident the 20V solenoid housing will work without having to cut the slot for the oil return. Again, the oil return slot is for the oil in the hollow rocker shafts to return to the oil pan. It's like a very weak oil pressure relief valve.

When the solenoids are activated, the oil travel through the rocker shafts and pushes the rocker arm pistons to activate the big cams. So what happens to the oil pressure when solenoids are off? It will escape through the rocker arm oil squirter and through the return oil valve in the solenoids. If you use the 20V solenoid housing on the 20VE head, some of the oil can't return to the return oil hole in the head and only through the rocker arm hole where it will eventually make it way back to the oil pan. The only possible long term problem I see with this route is if you don't kick in the big cams enough time. Like once a month or longer, and letting the engine sit for a year without usage. Then the oil in the return chamber in the solenoid housing gets cook and become gummy, since it just sits there.

Here's a picture of the solenoids. You will notice there are three different sections on the solenoids and each section correspond with the three chambers in the solenoid housing. All of the chambers are seal off from each other by the tight tolerance fit between the solenoid body and housing. Chamber #1 act as oil reservoir and holds the oil. Chamber #2(to cams) directs the oil to the rocker shafts and cams once the solenoid is activated and the plunger moves up to let the oil in. When the plunger moves up it will allow the oil to come into chamber #2 but it will also seal off chamber #3(oil return chamber) from the oil. The oil in rocker shafts will only go to chamber #3 if the solenoid is off (plunger move back down) and if the oil pressure is great enough to overcome the ball bearing valve with a very small weak spring(doesn't take much pressure to overcome it) in chamber #3. So in the VVL scheme, IMO, the oil return hole is not that important.

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