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Thread: VVL and E85

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Posts: 11-20 of 23
2009-05-22 13:16:55
#11
The specific output in BTU for Ethanol is way less than gasoline. Unless you are taking advantage of high compression or high boost levels, I doubt you will see any significant gains in power.
2009-05-22 13:42:23
#12
Originally Posted by Coheed
Noone runs E85 here

I guess if you live in an area where it is available, you can try it. But it has some serious drawbacks that most people don't really like:

Bad economy, requires from 30-40% more fuel.
Not available, with frequent fill-ups if there isn't a station where you go you are stuck.
Requires fuel line change, and conversion for the alcohol.
Requires a larger fuel pump, and larger injectors. Sometimes to the point the car won't idle well below 1500+rpm.
Harder to start in the winter, hope you have a big battery.

All motor applications would be pretty cool to see with high compression though. A few of my friends run E85 in their cars. But here is a real big drawback: advertised ethanol concentration! Our pumps here say E85, but it is more like E60-70 where I am. This will mess with your tune.

I think E85 on a 13.5:1 motor would be pretty cool to see.


the car will idle fine with the bigger injectors, you have to remember that say 800cc injectors will idle similar to 600-650cc's on pump. I seriously doubt you are going to need a big enough injector na that makes it hard to idle.

also i am working on a 13.5:1 and e85 only. I have also heard that our (aussie) e85 is better than your e85 as it is derived from sugar cane and not corn, giving it higher octane. Whether this is true or not is another whole argument. However like you i am keen to see the results of the combination.

Originally Posted by Coheed
Any cars since the early 90s should work just fine on stock rubber lines.

But there is a teflon lined hose that goodyear makes that all my friends switched to. (just to make sure)

1600cc injectors will not idle like stock, no matter what you do. Even 1000cc injectors would be hard to idle under 1000rpm. If you are going for 200whp on E85, then you will need around a 400cc injector. It should idle fine on that.

Is it worth it for you to run E85 over gasoline?



Originally Posted by blackb15
Plan was to run it on a stock 20ve bottom end/head with 16ve cams. You don't have to run super high compression.


Originally Posted by Coheed
The specific output in BTU for Ethanol is way less than gasoline. Unless you are taking advantage of high compression or high boost levels, I doubt you will see any significant gains in power.


you will with a standalone as you can go pretty crazy with the timing maps, but you are right high comp and boost will see the most benefits
2009-05-22 13:50:43
#13
Originally Posted by nick
I can't recall anyone posting about running their car on E85
It's old hat to us here in Columbia, SC.

Dan Martin ran it on his S13. Check #4 in DET section. http://www.sr20-forum.com/tuning/10391-most-powerful-engines-thread-dyno-thread-powerful-cars-tuners.html
2009-05-22 13:55:50
#14
Thanks guys. Was just curious.
2009-05-22 23:03:24
#15
Originally Posted by ca18
the car will idle fine with the bigger injectors, you have to remember that say 800cc injectors will idle similar to 600-650cc's on pump. I seriously doubt you are going to need a big enough injector na that makes it hard to idle.

also i am working on a 13.5:1 and e85 only. I have also heard that our (aussie) e85 is better than your e85 as it is derived from sugar cane and not corn, giving it higher octane. Whether this is true or not is another whole argument. However like you i am keen to see the results of the combination.

you will with a standalone as you can go pretty crazy with the timing maps, but you are right high comp and boost will see the most benefits


Yes, the aussie stuff is better, but like I said before it is much an advertising game. There are tons of pumps here that read E85, but they actually have a higher concentration of gasoline than they should. Prob just because of elevation. I wouldn't be surprised if the aussie stuff is better though.

You can go crazy with the timing maps, but I honestly don't think you will gain much power because of it. On 91oct at high elevation I tried changing base timing maps and I found that 19* base timing had the best results for top end performance with my JWT ecu and my setup. Increasing timing to 21* lost power, even though the engine never knocked.

You can only increase timing so far before you stop making power with it. But you know this.

I would like to see if there are any gains to be had with E85 on a stock motor, but like I said before, I am very skeptical that there will be any.
2009-05-25 10:13:36
#16
http://www.sr20-forum.com/vvl/15824-anyone-running-e85-ve.html

E85 does have good results on most engines with more advanced timing making more torqe and which obviously means it has more power potential.
2016-08-15 02:13:42
#17
what about anyone here blending e85 and 91 octane, I have been reading about peoples running mixed blend's, I'm doing a 1:4 mix on my turbo spec v, which basically 28 percent ethanol. It's making a decent difference you can feel. the car likes it, gonna have to try it on the ve here soon.

https://www.intercepteft.com/calc.html
2016-08-15 04:48:03
#18
We have E15 and E85 all around here. I Run E85 on the VET GTX turbo car. It has stainless 1600cc injectors and running a AEM standalone and idles great. Wintertime it gets gas for easy starts, you can change your tables for wintertime to combat the cold but who is going to run high boost in the winter anyway So far all of the factory stock lines are ok. The mileage SUX but it's really cheap compared to the 93 oct around here. Another thing I like about running E85 is how smooth it runs under boost. The bad would be getting no knock before blowing things up when you get greedy with timing

I was going to switch my automatic turbo car over to a dual fuel system since I run 8 injectors on it. The primary 4 (306cc) would use 91oct on the factory fuel system and the secondary's (440cc) would run E85 on a fuel cell in the trunk. I run all of the injectors at 4 bar so I think there is enough to do it. I think it would be a pretty cool setup since it would be on gas most of the time and in the winter you can warm up you car and not worry about cold starts but use the E85 on demand. I wish I had the time to weld up a tank to fit the spare tire well and run a second set of fuel lines and pump... Maybe someday
2016-09-07 04:06:13
#19
do it. it is worth it.
2016-09-07 18:48:42
#20
big injectors NA is not a problem. I'm running ID1000 on 91 gas with zero idle or startup issues whatsoever.
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