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Thread: SR20VE Help Need-Ignition Timing Fighting Me - High RPM Misfire-Sounds Like Anti Lag

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Posts: 21-30 of 68
2015-06-24 13:46:47
#21
A VE is really hard to get to ping... I think stock timing is around 32deg .. I tune VEs to about 39deg once VVL kicks on.. The large amounts of overlap a VVL has really helps knock down pinging... I have ran as high as 45deg and still did not ping , Just lost power ... So I think set your base timing to 22deg and pull a bit of timing if it pings down low but it won't ping on the high end and add a bit of fuel to get around 12.7-12.8:1 AFR and you should be good to go..


This is my only concern at the moment, having 22 degree advance at idle, if you think that is okay, I will set mechanical timing to 22 and zero out the FIC timing around idle and see how it is.
Last edited by VE-Baller on 2015-06-24 at 13-48-32.
2015-06-24 16:37:10
#22
SR20VE Help Need-Ignition Timing Fighting Me - High RPM Misfire-Sounds Like Anti Lag
Originally Posted by VE-Baller
Shagspeed - AEM is intercepting the signals coming from the sensors.

I dont see Euro P11 1997 listed for the MegaSquirt

I am tempted to go standalone. AEM EMS specifically because it is plug and play.


You have the OBD2 white plug yah? They have PNP for OBD1 ,OBD2 out of the box .. I can build them both myself along with PNP for the 00-02 B15 , 00-02 P11 even




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2015-06-24 16:46:08
#23


You have the OBD2 white plug yah? They have PNP for OBD1 ,OBD2 out of the box .. I can build them both myself along with PNP for the 00-02 B15 , 00-02 P11 even




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Hi. No OBD2 plug, Euro was OBD1/Consult in 97.
2015-06-24 16:55:31
#24
Originally Posted by VE-Baller
A VE is really hard to get to ping... I think stock timing is around 32deg .. I tune VEs to about 39deg once VVL kicks on.. The large amounts of overlap a VVL has really helps knock down pinging... I have ran as high as 45deg and still did not ping , Just lost power ... So I think set your base timing to 22deg and pull a bit of timing if it pings down low but it won't ping on the high end and add a bit of fuel to get around 12.7-12.8:1 AFR and you should be good to go..


This is my only concern at the moment, having 22 degree advance at idle, if you think that is okay, I will set mechanical timing to 22 and zero out the FIC timing around idle and see how it is.


You have better gas then us I think... I set me DE RR on my 2000 P11 to 21deg base and its fine and a VE is way more detonation resistant ... The process is like this... use ECU Talk to measure what your max timing is.. I see 32 deg max so if I want 39deg max I add 7deg to base .. The only thing you "MIGHT" have is if you lug the engine say WOT at around 1500-2500RPM might ping .. BUT the stock ECU and Knock sensor should take care of that.. Stock Knock sensor works below 3000RPM anything above its shut off.. Just dont go climbing hills at low RPM and you will be fine.
2015-06-24 17:15:49
#25
Shagspeed - I never use more than 30% throttle below 4K!

About the ECU talk. Haulin was saying it just reads of the map in the stock ECU. If that is correct it wont register the piggyback adjustments correct? ie I wont see any difference on the ECU talk by adjusting the FIC timing?

Ill crank the timing back to 22 degree base. And troubleshoot the problem from there.

What does it sound like to you? - I mean half throttle 5000rpm no problem but when I roll into the throttle more it starts to miss slightly and then it hits what seems like a revlimiter at 6500rpm. With accompanying explosions coming out of the exhaust.

What im thinking
1. Its blowing the spark out
2. Its retarding ignition (but how if the knock sensor is off)
3. MAF, ill check what happens to the MAF signal when I get the misfire
4. Wiring/inteference issue
2015-06-24 23:58:24
#26
First get rid of the AEM FIC piggyback, definitely confusing the stock ecu and yourself.

The only true timing is what you will see with the timing light on the crank pulley, some call it mechanical timing. Now what you have to do is to sync your ecu timing map with the mechanical timing. If the ECU Talk reads 15* at idle then you want to move the distributor until you see 15* at the crank pulley.

In order to set the base timing, you must first get the ecu into the timing mode by unplugging the tps and doing a rain dance. But seriously, once you unplugged the tps rev it three times past 3,000 rpm and let it idle. The engine will most likely die out the first time you try it. Turn the idle screw so you can get it to idle at 750 rpm. This will lock the timing, meaning the timing will not be jumping around. If you did not put the ecu into the base timing/idle mode, your timing will be all over the place because it in the closed loop stable idle strategy. There’s a target idle speed in the ecu, lets say 750 rpm, if the ecu does not see 750 rpm, it will constantly adjust the timing up or down in order to hit the target idle speed.

After doing this, you can then play with the mechanical timing(moving the distributor) and knowing how much timing you really put into it.

Every time you make a timing change, you must reset the ecu by disconnecting the battery. You have to erased the learned long term and short term memory. Otherwise the new timing won’t take effect.

I doubt all your hesitation problems are down to timing. You have not mentioned using a wideband sensor. Without it, you are tuning blind. The air fuel ratio has a big effect on how the engine revs.

Finally, no offense, but I find it odd that people would suggest you go to Nismotronic or Megasquirt. That’s like telling some one to ride a sport bike when they just got on a bicycle.
2015-06-25 01:10:48
#27
No offense but I can tune a car bone stock to run WAY better then a stock ECU... For example my bone stock beater B14 tuned with an MS on Alpha-N of all things.. No MAF no MAP sensor just TPS,CLT and CAS sensor is all I use for tuning... My buddys car has JWT ECU,JWT POP , JWT S4 Cams and Greddy 2.25 exhaust .. Both B14s though I have P10 long gears... 3rd gear pull was dead even 4th gear I pull ever so slightly .. Now I have my B14 tuned on the dam edge.. So a properly tuned car makes a HUGE differance !! I have tuned probebly 40-50 guys in SoCal ,NV and AZ mostly ... Every one was like HOLLY CRAP how much better my car runs... Also I get about 350mi a tank... CJ's B14 VVL got 390 a tank.... So more power and way better MPG... and the DIYPNP cost $430 and a few hours to put togeather ...
2015-06-25 07:53:47
#28
Hello Killer - About the FIC. You could be right. For NA, probably not the best thing to use. But the goal is to put a turbo on it but that is pointless if I cannot get it to run properly NA

About setting mechanical timing. I warm it up, rev it 3 times past 3000rpm pull the tps and then put the gun on it. Lines are rock solid on the pulley. ECU talk still shows 15 degrees though regardless of where the mechanical timing is set.

Car idles at 750rpm. When I first fitted it to the car it would idle at 1500rpm, but the Nissan ECU slowly brought that down over a couple of months.

If what Haulin wrote about the ECU talk just reading on the base map that would make sense.

In your experience clocking the distributor changes the timing reading on an ECU Talk?

If so, I have a problem somewhere.

I put the timing back to 22 this morning (mechanical, ECU talk still shows 15). Different car, tons more power & revs cleanly to redline. I bet the problem will come back this evening though.

I have a wideband. AFR is 13:1 WOT 4-7k RPM

I did a data log this morning when it was running properly.

I will do one again this evening and upload the files.

No offence taken.
2015-06-25 08:10:19
#29
Originally Posted by VE-Baller
Hello Killer - About the FIC. You could be right. For NA, probably not the best thing to use. But the goal is to put a turbo on it but that is pointless if I cannot get it to run properly NA

About setting mechanical timing. I warm it up, rev it 3 times past 3000rpm pull the tps and then put the gun on it. Lines are rock solid on the pulley. ECU talk still shows 15 degrees though regardless of where the mechanical timing is set.

Car idles at 750rpm. When I first fitted it to the car it would idle at 1500rpm, but the Nissan ECU slowly brought that down over a couple of months.

If what Haulin wrote about the ECU talk just reading on the base map that would make sense.

In your experience clocking the distributor changes the timing reading on an ECU Talk?

If so, I have a problem somewhere.

I put the timing back to 22 this morning (mechanical, ECU talk still shows 15). Different car, tons more power & revs cleanly to redline. I bet the problem will come back this evening though.

I have a wideband. AFR is 13:1 WOT 4-7k RPM

I did a data log this morning when it was running properly.

I will do one again this evening and upload the files.

No offense taken.


Also if you have an FPR turn it up a few PSI tell you get to 12.7:1 and it will be a bit safer and may make a tad more power...... Also check for corrosion on the plug wires and cap tips and coil if B13 also on the plugs.. A little Die-electric grease too.. Check the Rotor & Cap .. You may have a failing coil too if you see IGN missing ... I usually turn down the Dwell time if I suspect a bad coil as it will usually clean up though the spark is not as hot but can't notice it too much.. But you need a custom ECU to program that kind of stuff ..
2015-06-25 08:19:01
#30
I can increase injector duty cycle with the FIC. I will richen the mixture.
Cap is perfect, plug wires Magnecor.
Iridium plugs
I tired a VE coil, exact same problem
I will upload the logs
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