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Thread: Best tuning methods (affordable)

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Posts: 1-10 of 25
2013-03-05 13:20:55
#1
Best tuning methods (affordable)
Recently I have been reading a lot on tuning. I wanted to gauge the forum members on their means of tuning that affordable and not so affordable to assess all the options ( I'm a guy that loves options) I have read a lot of trash on AFC Neo's and fuel management in general.
These debates range from, trickin the voltage working the maf into adding fuel and then a lot of people realizing they are junk because, well, why ad fuel if you can't adjust your timing.

Currently my set up will consist of
SR20DE+T
T28RS
555cc TOMEI side feeds
BC stage 2
Z32 Maf
JWT (z32+turbo+555)
AEM Wideband

With a JWT from which I understand base Maps are acceptable, would a neo suffice, in simple engine monitoring and small tweaks?from what I understand AFC's should never be the only tool to tune with. But with a JWT base map instead of stock ecu i would think it would be acceptable unless i do more serious engine mods then I have. just want to monitor my wideband and make it down the street with reliable equipment.

Things I have heard of
Rom tune
Calum real time (now that he's gone where do you turn for maps???)
Stand Alone
2013-03-05 13:46:44
#2
Nismotronic/NEMU

That is ALL you will ever need.

Calum - Gone (and no support). However, several people on here has used a realtime and there are base maps floating around on the forum. However. these are rare and are hard to find!

JWT/ROM tune - Not real "tunes" and are just adjustment to timing/fuel for a catch all tune. Two seemingly identical setups will not (in some or all cases) have the same tune or fuel/timing maps! Don't like these apart from getting the car up and running (the base map on my JWT was not to my liking, left alot on the table, and had a hugely rich condition from 4K to readline hampering both power and fuel economoy).

AFC - I personally do not like them, ESPECIALLY considering the NEMU costs only a portion more and has endless options and is leaps and bounds ahead of the AFC setup

Good luck!
Last edited by Boostlee on 2013-03-05 at 13-50-43.
2013-03-05 13:56:54
#3
For reference

Calum Realtime/Basemap - Not personally used but have seen it in action. But with the development halted, the various options made available by a standalone are just simply not present (e:g Launch control. Although, there is a way "I hear" to get it implemented, I never bothered as it was too much of a bother to myself)

AFC - Used for monitoring and that it is! I do not like the idea of interrupting the MAF signal in order to tune. Piggy backs are just that, PIGGY BACKS! Waste of money in my eyes

JWT - Noted above in my previous post (I have had personal experience)

NEMU - It is what I currently run now and it's amazing! With some information on how the ecu calculates it's multipliers/correction factors for it's fuel cells, I setup a spread sheet and started from scratch last night and had my A/F dialed in pretty close for both WOT and putting around town pretty quickly. Took me a total of 1.5 hrs to start from scratch to get to where I wanted.
2013-03-05 14:59:21
#4
Originally Posted by Boostlee

Calum - Gone (and no support). However, several people on here has used a realtime and there are base maps floating around on the forum. However. these are rare and are hard to find!


Originally Posted by Boostlee

Calum Realtime/Basemap - Not personally used but have seen it in action. But with the development halted, the various options made available by a standalone are just simply not present (e:g Launch control. Although, there is a way "I hear" to get it implemented, I never bothered as it was too much of a bother to myself)


First I should say, Calum ECU's just run BIN files just like the rest of the OEM chipped ECU's (excluding Nemu, I'll explain below). Calum just provided the hardware to be able to run a new BIN file on your ECU. NisTune ECU's work with the exact same BIN files. BIN file is the actual tune that tells the ECU what to do. Someone sat down (Calum was a big part of it), and looked around the BIN file and found references to fuel maps, and noted the HEX location. Then they built an address file, which said at HEX location x, is the fuel map. This is how all of your oem ECU's are defined and made tunable (Besides the physical hardware aspect).

Basically your tuning ability is only as good as the person that was able to discover the tunable options, and hope they defined it right.

NismoTronic NEMU works on the exact same concept, it's a factory ECU with a daughterboard that lest you upload a new tune. The main difference, which blows everything else OEM tuning wise out of the water, is Dave Dunn was able to reverse engineer and recompile the whole BIN file. That means everything that is tunable on a factory ECU, is properly defined and documented, no unknown tables or values!

Originally Posted by Boostlee

JWT/ROM tune - Not real "tunes" and are just adjustment to timing/fuel for a catch all tune. Two seemingly identical setups will not (in some or all cases) have the same tune or fuel/timing maps! Don't like these apart from getting the car up and running (the base map on my JWT was not to my liking, left alot on the table, and had a hugely rich condition from 4K to readline hampering both power and fuel economoy).


I would not go as far as saying JWT are not real tunes. They are more real tunes then your average Calum/Nistune tunes. JWT is up there with OEM quality and reliability. There is a good chance Nissan just handed them the address file with every tunable option. Or they did what Dave Dunn did, but years prior. The real issue with JWT tunes is, they have to account for every single setup, thus they will be "base/safe" tunes!. This is exactly how OEM does their tunes too, they make them safe for all X vehicles coming off the production line. JWT will still be a better option for those that don't know how to Tune, or have access to a Tuner.

Now JWT can make you a custom tune, from what I got you can send them your logs and ECU and they will make adjustments to it. Expect to pay at least $100 per time though. If you are willing to drive to California, they can put your car on the dyno and get you a specific tune for your car too, expect to pay good $$$ for that too.

I personally don't care for a JWT ecu for my setup, it's ever changing and it's pricey to get a retune from JWT, but I do have to give credit where it's due.
2013-03-05 18:06:55
#5
This is great info, I'm eager to hear more input from others as well.

So the consensus is in agreement to what I had mentioned about jwt and afc neo. I have both sitting around, I know could most likely make reliable 300ish whp, I just want to save fuel and make more power. For my set up I wouldn't imagine I would need a 800 dollar stand alone. Granted JWT is good for what it is and maybe a neo better than nothing...since I have all the parts lounging and me being in the middle of my build its hard to charge directions I got my jwt for a reasonable price (200) with that tune and the afc for a quarter of the cost. I'm simply looking for simplicity, function, and bang for buck. Please post away tear it apart or add positives! The floor is yours!
2013-03-05 18:13:28
#6
If you want to tune yourself, you sound like the perfect candidate for a realtime NEMU solution (are they all realtime?).

If you don't want to tune yourself, then tell JWT what you're doing and have them send you an ECU.
2013-03-05 18:35:46
#7
Originally Posted by Boostlee
For reference

Calum Realtime/Basemap - Not personally used but have seen it in action. But with the development halted, the various options made available by a standalone are just simply not present (e:g Launch control. Although, there is a way "I hear" to get it implemented, I never bothered as it was too much of a bother to myself)


Not true. The RTv2 had LC integrated, albeit a very crude and simple, yet very nifty way to achieve this. It makes LC happen by comparing a few parameters (such as engine RPM, vehicle speed, and some more options), and applying a fuelcut at a certain RPM.

For example, if you'd set the revlimit at 4000 RPM, and the max speed under which this revlimit must be maintained (which is picked at a speed on an RPM lower than that revlimit in 1st gear (say 20 KPH at 3000 RPM), the ECU will cut fuel at 4000RPM until the speed of 20 KPH is reached, after which it stops cutting fuel.

What this means is that you can find out by trial and error at which RPM you still (barely) have grip while accelerating as fast as you can from standstill while popping the clutch, and set the LC revlimit just under that. You can just put the pedal to the metal and let the clutch engage rapidly. When you reach the desired speed (typically a speed where grip isn't an issue anymore), the revlimit cuts out, and you can be on your way.

Here's an example in my NX (I just installed it, was only the second time starting it with the new ECU (yes, CalumSult RTv2), and it really works):




Dave from Tunercode ( @OnTheChip / @dfddfd2 ) helped with creating this, using TunerProRT. There were even plans for making LC work with a spark-cut as well, I think. I haven't been paying much attention at the recent developments regarding TPRT, but when my NX has finally received its VE, I will definately start catching up again.

Also, the RTv2 had another great feature, and that is that it has the ability to switch cam-profiles for VVL built in.


Unfortunately, only very few were actually made, mine was one of the first to be not a prototype. And no, you're not getting mine :P
Last edited by M0J0 on 2013-03-05 at 18-42-11.
2013-03-05 19:29:41
#8
Suscribed!
2013-03-05 21:42:57
#9
@M0J0 As I said I "heard" it can be implemented but never could be bothered

@Vadim and myself had a discussion about this a few months back

To me, the Calum is seemingly outdated as JK is making strides and removes the trial and error (read: time that could be used for something else) from the aspect of tuning
2013-03-05 21:47:43
#10
Originally Posted by Zeek234
This is great info, I'm eager to hear more input from others as well.

So the consensus is in agreement to what I had mentioned about jwt and afc neo. I have both sitting around, I know could most likely make reliable 300ish whp, I just want to save fuel and make more power. For my set up I wouldn't imagine I would need a 800 dollar stand alone. Granted JWT is good for what it is and maybe a neo better than nothing...since I have all the parts lounging and me being in the middle of my build its hard to charge directions I got my jwt for a reasonable price (200) with that tune and the afc for a quarter of the cost. I'm simply looking for simplicity, function, and bang for buck. Please post away tear it apart or add positives! The floor is yours!


If you want to tune it yourself, or if you want a tune specific to your car (would make the most power and gas mileage if tuned right), then NEMU.

If you just want something that runs and would be good enough, your current JWT ecu would be fine (as long as you don't have to send it off to get retuned = $100). JWT does not make sense to buy brand new because it costs $500, then if you want a new tune it's $100 every time. At that point you might as well pay $550 for a Nemu...

Originally Posted by M0J0

Dave from Tunercode ( @OnTheChip / @dfddfd2 ) helped with creating this, using TunerProRT. There were even plans for making LC work with a spark-cut as well, I think. I haven't been paying much attention at the recent developments regarding TPRT, but when my NX has finally received its VE, I will definately start catching up again.

Also, the RTv2 had another great feature, and that is that it has the ability to switch cam-profiles for VVL built in.


Dave incorporated that feature into TunerCode, along with programmable outputs that you could buy. TunerCode is no longer sold as stadalone firmware. Thus if you want the benefits/Tunability of TunerCode you have to buy a NismoTronic Nemu ECU.

Originally Posted by M0J0

Unfortunately, only very few were actually made, mine was one of the first to be not a prototype. And no, you're not getting mine :P


Meh no one wants one anyway, it costs almost as much as a NEMU, yet without any real features (read no TunerCode)
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