Thread: How to make your fuel and timing maps AKA "TP/LOAD" scales

Based on his logs, I find it inconclusive. If he did proper logs, I believe they would show there is NO trend. I'm still holding out 100%, yes.

I don't see how someone can look at this image and think Pressure and TP trend. The mind bottles.
http://i.imgur.com/gOcWzkf.png

You could very well be, temperature changes will do that. I had my car tuned up on a 70* day, next morning I had to go on a long trip, weather was in the 50's, all of the sudden it's leaning out in boost, had to enrich the mixture. The real fix for that is properly rescaling your TP scales like I mentioned in the longer example.

One thing I should mention TP moves around a LOT. So off throttle situations can make you end up being in the wrong column. What you really have to look for is knock.



It is very possible, that's why you tune for the worst. Richer is safer .



Now I didn't think about this this morning, but the reason you need to tune your TP scales to boost pressures, is to make sure your don't lean out in boost. Unless the whole boost pressure to not being leaner then 12.0AFR doesn't apply because we are mafed .

I know you don't have much MAF tuning background, but I would like to hear what other alternatives we really have. If we can't get our afr's under 12.0 under boost, we are just as SOL as the next guy with a speed density. We have to setup our TP columns so that they are only reached while in boost, and so that they are safe enough incase you overboost. That's what makes tuning for MAF cars that much more difficult .

I should clarify that I tune Boost to AFR's, not really to a certain TP. If I can magically get all of certain PSI under one TP column then it's good, but I also know that temperature changes will make me be in another column, thus I tune the other column to have safe AFR's too.

Vadim, it is clear you're trying to apply a speed-density style of tuning to a mass air setup. This is why you're having so much trouble.

I propose we talk about a new method and maybe you'll want to give it a try. It should eliminate your issues with weather/temp changes messing things up, and prevent your from having to tune to the ultimate worst case which leaves you with a suboptimal tune 99% of the time.

Logging boost/vacuum is not redundant if you want to set you map up to know where these pressure points exist, and they will change greatly with injector and maf changes and adjustments to k constant and even latency has an effect allbiet small but it is there. I like to take the guess work out of it because anything else is guessing, im just putting a face to TP in the form of MAP.

Oh believe me there proper there real world not guestimated and what make my tune work better is paying attention to these fucnky situations that happen, ist very easy to log straight WOT pulls to redline I already know what thats gonna look like, but i'll get more like that. I dont like my car to act like and on and off switch, i love the transitional periods because with the stock ECU Nissan did a good job of the transitions, its harder to tune this. Its easy to get your AFR what you want at WOT and idle, basically im putting my car is none realistic situations that would normaly induce leaness, this is were supper efficency is happending.

But i'll get more logs, I just ordered new axles from infinti because my empi axles are shit and are causing me vibrations so WOT right now doesnt feel good but once i get this fixed i'll be a logging whore.

You're right, logging boost/vacuum might be helpful for the Turbo people.

My statement about boost/ vacuum logging being redundant is from NA perspective. This is where I see it being of little help.

Even NA there is a benefit albiet small but its there, based on AFR and timing you can see how much closer to 0psi you can get, that would mean your making more power, I believe Indy cars are so efficent than they actually make 1-2psi of positive pressure with no turbo charger, so see theres hope for NA guys, you could test different intake, filters, exhausts to see what less restrictive and makes more power, this will all be noted by MAP changing realitive to TP.


I pay attention to my vacuum areas especially the transitional period. Infact the very first thing I do is tune my NA portion of the MAP before I even bolt the turbocharger on. You can still do it with the turbo on and even if you tune it with the turbo off you have to retune it again anyways because believe it or not the NA parts of the maps because very effecient over the average NA engine because the turbo acts like a supercharger once it gets spinning fast enough and this is where teh CBV comes into play and recirculates this over pressure.


So see adding a turbocharger changes all aspects of your tune, you have essentially made your car way more efficent, my previous S13 KA24DE(T) got upwards of 450 miles to the tank full on long freeways runs, I swear that car stock NA KA24DE never saw more than 230 miles per the tank full on the same run up north to Turluck, CA I shit you not. But some of this gain had to with knock sesnor cable needing to be replaced but thats a whole nother story.

Lol, now you are stretching it. The MAF does a lot better job of telling you if you have made gains. It actually measure the air mass. The MAP does not measure the air directly. That's why you have to setup an air temp compensation lookup table with it.

Engine is just and air pump, by adding a turbo your making it easier for the air pump to work. Now I personally haven't seen THOSE kind of gains, but my turbo SR20's always got same gas mileage or better then stock SR20's that I've had, even though I would drive the turbo ones a lot harsher. Main reason for this is stock tunes are overly rich, one of my P11's was as rich as 10's at WOT!

Now what I have personally seen is 2-3 mpg increase city going from a tuned NA setup to a tune Turbo setup. It was kind of funny actually, I floored the car a lot more with the turbo, and it still made 2mpg higher then the same motor NA driving nicely.

Just want to take a timeout and say I like this thread