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Thread: Heat wrapping vs Ceramic Coating a header

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Posts: 11-20 of 26
2009-04-13 18:08:18
#11
I think the ceramic looks nicer than the wrap, and it must help the temps some even if it's by 1 degree. I guess if you wrap it, the only question would be would it crack it over time from the rust?



^Pic#1.....Pic courtesy of SER96VPEC




^Pic#2......Pic courtesy of Martin_g34
2009-04-13 18:09:16
#12
^^agreed wtf. I dont want to have to keep pulling headers every years and re do the coating and take the time to re wrap it. I want to do it once and be done. I prefer wrapping for the even more reduced under hood temps.
2009-04-13 19:22:37
#13
Originally Posted by BenFenner
Nope. Common misconception. Air cooling down and slowing down resulting in back pressure is not the issue. The faster the air moves past an adjacent merging pipe the more it will scavenge from that pipe (local pressure in adjacent pipe will be lower). After all merges are made, exhaust temps mean nothing for flow. You could put refrigerator coils around your exhaust and it wouldn't make a difference.

Keeping the exhaust in the header (specifically) hot is for increased scavenging effects. Also lower under hood temps as mentioned earlier. It could also help or hurt catalytic converter and O2 sensor operation depending on placement in exhaust. After the collectors are merged, temps mean nothing.

On topic: header wrap promotes rust because it holds water and other crap next to the (bare?) metal allowing rust to form easier. It can also rub through paint and coatings to help rust. I painted my downpipe and wrapped it if you're curious. I'm too cheap for ceramic coatings or stainless steel/titanium/inconel. =/



Well I did wrap mine primaries, I didn't bother with secondaries because Im cheap and it didn't seem useful.

I got my information from CarBibles.com. Check the bottom of this page for more information.

This little section almost needs to be considered along with turbos, above, because the two typically go hand-in-hand. When gas gets hot, it gets less dense. Less dense means less resistance to flow. It figures, then, that people who are looking at every tiny minutae of performance would want to wrap their exhaust headers. Why? Well exhaust gas exits the combustion chamber extremely hot (duh!) but it cools rapidly as it travels through the exhaust system. In doing so, two things happen. First, the gas becomes more dense and begins to resist flow, and second, as it does this, it disperses heat into the metal exhaust pipes, which in turn radiate the heat into the engine bay, raising the under-hood temperatures. The problem with the gas cooling down is obvious - it begins to slow down and provide resistance in the exhaust system. The problem with the under-hood temperatures going up is that it makes it more difficult for the engine to get a good, cold charge of air. (Colder air is more dense, which means better, more powerful combustion.) This is why you sometimes see vented hoods on cars; they're designed to let the hot air out and keep the under-hood temperatures down. So wrapping the exhaust headers with exhaust wrap helps because it basically insulates the metal exhaust pipes. This means they retain the heat better which in turn means the exhaust gas remains less dense and keeps up it's high flow rate. For turbos, this is a good thing because it means the exhaust reaching the turbo is travelling faster, which means the turbo spins faster, which means more air forced into the engine. Everything is connected, you see? So the ideal system would be a turbo, with wrapped exhaust headers, a vented hood, a cold-air unduction and an intercooler. That combination, whilst expensive, will give the coldest (and thus densest) fuel-air charge into the engine, whilst insulating the exhaust and ventilating the engine bay at the same time.
It's worth pointing out that not all exhaust wraps are made equal. If the wrap insulates too well, then the exhaust pipes get too hot and that can cause all it's own problems from engine bay fires to structural failure of the exhaust or turbo.
Point to note: It's only a rumour that exhaust wrap absorbs water and can encourage your mild steel headers to crumble away prematurely. If anyone tells you this, they're fearmongering.
2009-04-13 19:29:24
#14
Vadim, I don't buy even half of that. I'm going to go look up fluid flow versus temperature and get back to you.
2009-04-13 19:40:45
#15
If you coat, get a true thermal coating. Don't cheap on this and don't think that ceramic coatings actually do anytihng but look nice.

High Performance Coatings, Inc.

Brent
2009-04-13 19:45:54
#16
Originally Posted by BenFenner
Vadim, I don't buy even half of that. I'm going to go look up fluid flow versus temperature and get back to you.


Sweet, I wouldn't mind seeing if it's true before I install the header into the P11.
2009-04-13 19:47:12
#17
Well, apparently flow rates increase as temperature decreases. I was wrong. Refrigerator coils would actually help.

Use this calculator:

Compressible air flow calculation

Set it to calculate flow rate (not pressure drop). Calculate with a low temperature, then a high temperature. I'll say it again, keeping the exhaust hot is about increasing scavenging effects, not increasing flow through the single (merged) pipe. Scavenging effects do work pre-turbo as mentioned in your quote, so it's good to wrap turbo manifolds too.
2009-04-13 21:17:25
#18
Originally Posted by coach
If you coat, get a true thermal coating. Don't cheap on this and don't think that ceramic coatings actually do anytihng but look nice.

High Performance Coatings, Inc.

Brent

Don't forget Swain coatings. The real deal.
2009-04-13 21:31:21
#19
Thanks everybody for the insight and i guess I will save up to get the header coated because I don't want to wrap the header and then have it rust on me
2009-04-13 23:23:21
#20
Originally Posted by BenFenner
Well, apparently flow rates increase as temperature decreases. I was wrong. Refrigerator coils would actually help.

Use this calculator:

Compressible air flow calculation

Set it to calculate flow rate (not pressure drop). Calculate with a low temperature, then a high temperature. I'll say it again, keeping the exhaust hot is about increasing scavenging effects, not increasing flow through the single (merged) pipe. Scavenging effects do work pre-turbo as mentioned in your quote, so it's good to wrap turbo manifolds too.


Ben, don't take this the wrong way, but this is a little off base.

Sure, you get more corrected flow with cooler air. Cooler air is more dense. But the mach speed of the air is increased with increases in temperature. Pressure has no effect on Mach.

If you remember from physics 201, air speed cannot travel faster than mach. And in order to increase speed beyond that, you must increase temperature. Increased temps cause excitation of the air molecules, which will cause them to move more quickly. This is why the turbo will spool faster with a manifold that is coated. But you are right about scavenging. This is a two-fold reaction. You increase scavenging, and gas speed by keeping temperatures higher.

So while you can increase flow with a temp drop, you can increase velocity with a temp increase.
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